an old keris tok chu..but is it from the master?

[alexish]

I have heard some old stories of the Genuine Tok Chu being less magnetic compared to other kerises

I am not sure how true is this story?

Maybe you can use a magnet to test your tok chu compared to other kerises?

Of cause, being made of some kind of steel, it would still be magnetic, but its level of magnetism would be similar to stainless steel, which is less magnetic than conventional high carbon steel.

Maybe try to use the old lodestone magnet, rather than the modern magnet.

[Green]

Thanks David for the link. Since I now know both Che gu Nasir and Ahmad Zhaini who are both well respected malay/patani keris experts... i may show this keris to them for their opinion. My guess is it is a tok chu style keris made for common people may be early 20th century....

Alexish;

that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?

[alexish]

Alexish;

that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?[/QUOTE]

I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?

[David]

Originally Posted by alexish

Alexish;
that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?

Originally Posted by alexish

I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?

Many old keris i have collected over the years have displayed weak magnetic fields when brought near a compass. Then i touch them to a powerful magnet and their magnetic fields are instantly revitalized and strong again. I have some serious doubts that this method would be conclusive to determining whether a blade was actually made by Tok Chu or not.
Green, from the looks of your blade i would image it is either quite a bit older than early 20th century or it was intentionally aged. But the wear looks genuine. I'm not sure that actual age will confirm it to be definitely made by Tok Chu either. With the stories of Tok Chu we are dealing a lot with myth and legend. I am sure there are truths that stand behind the legend, but i am afraid that getting to them at this point in time can be quite difficult. The best thing you can probably do is ask yourself, does this look like the work of a renown and legendary keris master. Compare it to accepted Tok Chu keris of a similar form and make your own judgement. Though i would be curious what your keris ahli friends have to say on the matter.

[David]

One aspect of blades that most seem to identify as Tok Chu aside from the wide girth of the blade is deeply carved features. That is not to say that your keris is not of the Tok Chu style, but given the level of erosion to the blade it is difficult to determine how it may have looked when new. Here are a couple of examples that i found on the internet. I seriously doubt either of these can be attributed to the legendary smith, but these seem to epitomize the form as i know it.

[alexish]

I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?

Originally Posted by David

Many old keris i have collected over the years have displayed weak magnetic fields when brought near a compass. Then i touch them to a powerful magnet and their magnetic fields are instantly revitalized and strong again. I have some serious doubts that this method would be conclusive to determining whether a blade was actually made by Tok Chu or not.
Green, from the looks of your blade i would image it is either quite a bit older than early 20th century or it was intentionally aged. But the wear looks genuine. I'm not sure that actual age will confirm it to be definitely made by Tok Chu either. With the stories of Tok Chu we are dealing a lot with myth and legend. I am sure there are truths that stand behind the legend, but i am afraid that getting to them at this point in time can be quite difficult. The best thing you can probably do is ask yourself, does this look like the work of a renown and legendary keris master. Compare it to accepted Tok Chu keris of a similar form and make your own judgement. Though i would be curious what your keris ahli friends have to say on the matter.

But at least the magnetic compass method may confirm whether the keris is genuinely old or artificially aged.

[David]

Originally Posted by alexish

But at least the magnetic compass method may confirm whether the keris is genuinely old or artificially aged.

Not really. There is nothing that confirms that newly made keris have a greater magnetic field than older keris. I always charge my new keris by touching them to a powerful magnet regardless of their age. I don't believe anyone has done study that shows that keris begin life with a stronger magnetic charge and lose it over time.

[alexish]

Originally Posted by David

Not really. There is nothing that confirms that newly made keris have a greater magnetic field than older keris. I always charge my new keris by touching them to a powerful magnet regardless of their age. I don't believe anyone has done study that shows that keris begin life with a stronger magnetic charge and lose it over time.

What is the reason that you charge your new keris with a powerful magnet. Is there a mystical reason, or does it help to preserve the blade?

[Shieh]

Originally Posted by Green

Thanks David for the link. Since I now know both Che gu Nasir and Ahmad Zhaini who are both well respected malay/patani keris experts... i may show this keris to them for their opinion. My guess is it is a tok chu style keris made for common people may be early 20th century....

Hi Green and everyone here in this forum. I'm Shieh from Malaysia, newly admitted member. I look forward to learn from and share with my fellow Keris enthusiasts here (it'll be more of the former rather than the latter I'm afraid).

Green, the Che'gu Nasir you mentioned is the Silat and weapons master from Kota Bharu?