Questions on 2 Javanese blades

[Jean]

Thank you Alan and I agree with you.
Of course the 9 luk blade looks older than the 5 luk but could it just be because of the metal quality (more porous so prone to corrosion) or poor maintenance?
I hesitated to date it to pre-1800 because of the pamor miring at the base (Toya Mambeg or Lawe Satukel?). Is there a clear evidence that these pamor patterns were already made during the 18th century or earlier? More generally am I too conservative to believe that very few common quality blades on the market pre-date 1800 contrary to the assertions from the kris sellers ?
Regards