THE ROYAL NAVY CUTLASS.

Hotspur · 21st November 2017, 08:44 PM

"Use the point boys, save the edge for kindling."

Considering the wide use of straight bladed cutlasses over the centuries, there is little doubt thrusting was considered effective. A lot of late sail training pictures and manuals seem to regard what one sees in lots of sabre notes.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

Compare George Silver to later traits such as Donald McBane and one still sees undeniable similarities applicable to both straight and curved blades.

There are keggers of discussions re the veracity of cut vs thrust and reviewing those, as well as virtually any treatise on early modern swordsmanship, one can go back to Silver and find a simple truth that "Perfect fight stands upon both blow and thrust, therefore the thrust is not only to be used." However prefaced before that with the statement "That a blow comes continually as near as a thrust, and most commonly nearer, stronger, more swift, and is sooner done."

At any rate, what we see in these photos is quite traditional sabre play but don't forget a long, long tradition of singlestick.

Cheers

GC

M ELEY · 22nd November 2017, 05:53 AM

Both Jim and Glenn pointed out that the slashing attack with the cutlass wasn't practical. This makes total sense when we remember that ship's decks were extremely tight quarters and overcrowded. Although some longer swords made it to sea, the primary edged weapons were short hangers, cutlasses, dirks, etc. Thrusting weapons were the item of choice, evidenced by the reemergence of the ancient pike, much shortened to fit on a crowded ship's deck. The point is that it makes sense that the cutlass could be used as a sharpened bludgeon, but worked better as a stabbing implement like the pikes and dirks.

As a medical person, I would say that a jab to the face or neck could obviously be lethal, penetrating the airway, severing the trachea, carotids and jugular. To the chest, there is penetration of the lungs, bronchus (all fatal), heart and great vessels (aortic arch), abdominal cavity with its vascular liver and pancreas.

Also consider the cutlass in the use for DEFENSE of the ship vs the aggressor boarding party. Netting was placed over the ship to discourage boarders, with the pikemen stabbing through the netting as the enemy attempted to clamber onto the deck. Again, a cutlass would work far better here as a thrusting defensive weapon, stabbing through the tight ropes at those on the other side. It stands to reason that this is why, as Jim astutely pointed out, the cutlass became more of a blunt tool over the years.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd November 2017, 09:14 AM

Salaams M ELEY, I agree entirely...and this is underlined by its use as a Police weapon..In the Navy many of the moves do appear to be as a thrust action...I would imagine also that in a melee it would be more a brawling weapon and in the final assault little room and no time to dawdle in posed sword stance... More the concept of "get in there and bash heads"! The stabbing effect would certainly be most useful in close fighting.

M ELEY · 23rd November 2017, 12:35 AM

Exactly, Ibrahiim. Thanks again for posting this information, especially the charts on cutlass drill. I think it is a welcome edition to this forum for future collectors and historians!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd November 2017, 12:31 PM

Thanks M ELEY . Here is another picture.. I have to say that they do seem to have practiced the thrust manouvre ~

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd November 2017, 01:42 PM

Here is an interesting sketch~
Note the Pattern 1871 "Bayonets, Sword, Naval, with Cutlass Guard, for Martini-Henry Rifles"

~and that the terminology even so late in Victorian times was still the old style of wording; Sword Naval.

This sketch indicates that this was part of the Marmara contingent apparently practicing repelling enemy cavalry ashore..

M ELEY · 24th November 2017, 02:52 AM

Great additions, Ibrahiim. You brought up a good point that just because a weapon went to sea didn't mean its exclusive function in that regard. Obviously, marine troops on ships were used for land actions, as this 'Marmara' contingent you pictured would have done.

Many of the boarding type weapons long outlasted their supposed usefulness in regards to changing warfare (the obsolescence of the sword towards the later 19th c.), era and the end of Fighting Sail. Cutlasses and pikes still continued to find their way aboard merchant ships and tea clippers into the early 20th century. Still, one might recall that many of these trading ships were traveling to the East to possibly 'seedy' ports, through areas where piracy was still alive and well (Malay islands, South China Sea) and into tropical warrens where local tribes were possibly hostile to the European interlopers (Polynesia, Borneo, the Celebes, etc). There is an amazing and exciting descriptive encounter between whalers and Kingsmill islanders as they stormed the ship in Gilkerson's 'Boarder's Away', pg 135. The point being, these weapons were still relevant up unto the present era.

23rd November 2017, 12:31 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Thanks M ELEY . Here is another picture.. I have to say that they do seem to have practiced the thrust manouvre ~ Attached Images

23rd November 2017, 01:42 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Here is an interesting sketch~ Note the Pattern 1871 "Bayonets, Sword, Naval, with Cutlass Guard, for Martini-Henry Rifles" ~and that the terminology even so late in Victorian times was still the old style of wording; Sword Naval. This sketch indicates that this was part of the Marmara contingent apparently practicing repelling enemy cavalry ashore.. Attached Images

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21st November 2017, 08:44 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	"Use the point boys, save the edge for kindling." Considering the wide use of straight bladed cutlasses over the centuries, there is little doubt thrusting was considered effective. A lot of late sail training pictures and manuals seem to regard what one sees in lots of sabre notes. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html Compare George Silver to later traits such as Donald McBane and one still sees undeniable similarities applicable to both straight and curved blades. There are keggers of discussions re the veracity of cut vs thrust and reviewing those, as well as virtually any treatise on early modern swordsmanship, one can go back to Silver and find a simple truth that "Perfect fight stands upon both blow and thrust, therefore the thrust is not only to be used." However prefaced before that with the statement "That a blow comes continually as near as a thrust, and most commonly nearer, stronger, more swift, and is sooner done." At any rate, what we see in these photos is quite traditional sabre play but don't forget a long, long tradition of singlestick. Cheers GC

22nd November 2017, 05:53 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Both Jim and Glenn pointed out that the slashing attack with the cutlass wasn't practical. This makes total sense when we remember that ship's decks were extremely tight quarters and overcrowded. Although some longer swords made it to sea, the primary edged weapons were short hangers, cutlasses, dirks, etc. Thrusting weapons were the item of choice, evidenced by the reemergence of the ancient pike, much shortened to fit on a crowded ship's deck. The point is that it makes sense that the cutlass could be used as a sharpened bludgeon, but worked better as a stabbing implement like the pikes and dirks. As a medical person, I would say that a jab to the face or neck could obviously be lethal, penetrating the airway, severing the trachea, carotids and jugular. To the chest, there is penetration of the lungs, bronchus (all fatal), heart and great vessels (aortic arch), abdominal cavity with its vascular liver and pancreas. Also consider the cutlass in the use for DEFENSE of the ship vs the aggressor boarding party. Netting was placed over the ship to discourage boarders, with the pikemen stabbing through the netting as the enemy attempted to clamber onto the deck. Again, a cutlass would work far better here as a thrusting defensive weapon, stabbing through the tight ropes at those on the other side. It stands to reason that this is why, as Jim astutely pointed out, the cutlass became more of a blunt tool over the years.

22nd November 2017, 09:14 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams M ELEY, I agree entirely...and this is underlined by its use as a Police weapon..In the Navy many of the moves do appear to be as a thrust action...I would imagine also that in a melee it would be more a brawling weapon and in the final assault little room and no time to dawdle in posed sword stance... More the concept of "get in there and bash heads"! The stabbing effect would certainly be most useful in close fighting.

23rd November 2017, 12:35 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Exactly, Ibrahiim. Thanks again for posting this information, especially the charts on cutlass drill. I think it is a welcome edition to this forum for future collectors and historians!

24th November 2017, 02:52 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Great additions, Ibrahiim. You brought up a good point that just because a weapon went to sea didn't mean its exclusive function in that regard. Obviously, marine troops on ships were used for land actions, as this 'Marmara' contingent you pictured would have done. Many of the boarding type weapons long outlasted their supposed usefulness in regards to changing warfare (the obsolescence of the sword towards the later 19th c.), era and the end of Fighting Sail. Cutlasses and pikes still continued to find their way aboard merchant ships and tea clippers into the early 20th century. Still, one might recall that many of these trading ships were traveling to the East to possibly 'seedy' ports, through areas where piracy was still alive and well (Malay islands, South China Sea) and into tropical warrens where local tribes were possibly hostile to the European interlopers (Polynesia, Borneo, the Celebes, etc). There is an amazing and exciting descriptive encounter between whalers and Kingsmill islanders as they stormed the ship in Gilkerson's 'Boarder's Away', pg 135. The point being, these weapons were still relevant up unto the present era.