THE ROYAL NAVY CUTLASS.

M ELEY · 21st November 2017, 05:20 AM

Excellent thread on my favorite type of weapon! Nothing to add to what's already been said other than the fact that many of the naval pattern cutlass had surprisingly blunt edges. If one remembers that the chief initiative of naval boarding was for the capture of the ship, one can assume that many of the blows from these weapons was to incapacitate the enemy vs. downright kill him. Rest assured, a cutlass blow could kill, but in the descriptive battle CC mentioned, casualties from edged weapons were indeed low.

I read a book on 19th c. cutlass practice and learned the chief target was the opponent's head, thus the development of the unique leather head gear developed by the Americans. A cutlass slamming into your skull would certainly split the scalp, get blood in your eyes, stun or knock you senseless and take the fight out of you, but not necessarily deliver a mortal wound. Cannon balls, shivers/splinters, grenades and musket shot, on the other hand, was more deadly and caused the most trauma.

When boarding, the boarders were often the last attack plan, with the cannons, grapeshot and musket fire from the tops sweeping the deck first. The 'party' were the finishing-up crew.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st November 2017, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Excellent thread on my favorite type of weapon! Nothing to add to what's already been said other than the fact that many of the naval pattern cutlass had surprisingly blunt edges. If one remembers that the chief initiative of naval boarding was for the capture of the ship, one can assume that many of the blows from these weapons was to incapacitate the enemy vs. downright kill him. Rest assured, a cutlass blow could kill, but in the descriptive battle CC mentioned, casualties from edged weapons were indeed low.

I read a book on 19th c. cutlass practice and learned the chief target was the opponent's head, thus the development of the unique leather head gear developed by the Americans. A cutlass slamming into your skull would certainly split the scalp, get blood in your eyes, stun or knock you senseless and take the fight out of you, but not necessarily deliver a mortal wound. Cannon balls, shivers/splinters, grenades and musket shot, on the other hand, was more deadly and caused the most trauma.

When boarding, the boarders were often the last attack plan, with the cannons, grapeshot and musket fire from the tops sweeping the deck first. The 'party' were the finishing-up crew.

Salaams M Eley and it is great to see your reply. I recorded a few details on Cutlass in action.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st November 2017, 02:16 PM

It is perhaps the right time to look at training on Cutlasses on board and ashore ~ As noted previously The Captain of HMS Shannon was keen to get his men used to cutlass work... He used sticks to very good effect.

Below some interesting scenarios on Cutlass Training.~ Bristol Police Training, Cutlass Drill on HMS Cerebus, Training in a shore station at Dawlish and a white seachart of different defence and attack drills ordered by the Admiralty.

Jim McDougall · 21st November 2017, 07:52 PM

Well made note Mark on the dull edge of the cutlass. if that were not the case, the wound suffered by the captain of the Shannon would have split his head like a melon.
It seems funny with the sailors holding these in a fencing stance. These were anything but sharp cutting swords, and by these times, as Mark noted, more like bludgeons. Quite different than boarding in the earlier times of fighting sail and pirates.

The notion of 'fencing' in the manner of every 'swashbuckling' movie or romantic flashing blades in literature is of course, just fun, but mostly nonsense.

Hotspur · 21st November 2017, 08:44 PM

"Use the point boys, save the edge for kindling."

Considering the wide use of straight bladed cutlasses over the centuries, there is little doubt thrusting was considered effective. A lot of late sail training pictures and manuals seem to regard what one sees in lots of sabre notes.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

Compare George Silver to later traits such as Donald McBane and one still sees undeniable similarities applicable to both straight and curved blades.

There are keggers of discussions re the veracity of cut vs thrust and reviewing those, as well as virtually any treatise on early modern swordsmanship, one can go back to Silver and find a simple truth that "Perfect fight stands upon both blow and thrust, therefore the thrust is not only to be used." However prefaced before that with the statement "That a blow comes continually as near as a thrust, and most commonly nearer, stronger, more swift, and is sooner done."

At any rate, what we see in these photos is quite traditional sabre play but don't forget a long, long tradition of singlestick.

Cheers

GC

M ELEY · 22nd November 2017, 05:53 AM

Both Jim and Glenn pointed out that the slashing attack with the cutlass wasn't practical. This makes total sense when we remember that ship's decks were extremely tight quarters and overcrowded. Although some longer swords made it to sea, the primary edged weapons were short hangers, cutlasses, dirks, etc. Thrusting weapons were the item of choice, evidenced by the reemergence of the ancient pike, much shortened to fit on a crowded ship's deck. The point is that it makes sense that the cutlass could be used as a sharpened bludgeon, but worked better as a stabbing implement like the pikes and dirks.

As a medical person, I would say that a jab to the face or neck could obviously be lethal, penetrating the airway, severing the trachea, carotids and jugular. To the chest, there is penetration of the lungs, bronchus (all fatal), heart and great vessels (aortic arch), abdominal cavity with its vascular liver and pancreas.

Also consider the cutlass in the use for DEFENSE of the ship vs the aggressor boarding party. Netting was placed over the ship to discourage boarders, with the pikemen stabbing through the netting as the enemy attempted to clamber onto the deck. Again, a cutlass would work far better here as a thrusting defensive weapon, stabbing through the tight ropes at those on the other side. It stands to reason that this is why, as Jim astutely pointed out, the cutlass became more of a blunt tool over the years.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd November 2017, 09:14 AM

Salaams M ELEY, I agree entirely...and this is underlined by its use as a Police weapon..In the Navy many of the moves do appear to be as a thrust action...I would imagine also that in a melee it would be more a brawling weapon and in the final assault little room and no time to dawdle in posed sword stance... More the concept of "get in there and bash heads"! The stabbing effect would certainly be most useful in close fighting.

21st November 2017, 02:16 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	It is perhaps the right time to look at training on Cutlasses on board and ashore ~ As noted previously The Captain of HMS Shannon was keen to get his men used to cutlass work... He used sticks to very good effect. Below some interesting scenarios on Cutlass Training.~ Bristol Police Training, Cutlass Drill on HMS Cerebus, Training in a shore station at Dawlish and a white seachart of different defence and attack drills ordered by the Admiralty. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st November 2017 at 02:40 PM.

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21st November 2017, 05:20 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Excellent thread on my favorite type of weapon! Nothing to add to what's already been said other than the fact that many of the naval pattern cutlass had surprisingly blunt edges. If one remembers that the chief initiative of naval boarding was for the capture of the ship, one can assume that many of the blows from these weapons was to incapacitate the enemy vs. downright kill him. Rest assured, a cutlass blow could kill, but in the descriptive battle CC mentioned, casualties from edged weapons were indeed low. I read a book on 19th c. cutlass practice and learned the chief target was the opponent's head, thus the development of the unique leather head gear developed by the Americans. A cutlass slamming into your skull would certainly split the scalp, get blood in your eyes, stun or knock you senseless and take the fight out of you, but not necessarily deliver a mortal wound. Cannon balls, shivers/splinters, grenades and musket shot, on the other hand, was more deadly and caused the most trauma. When boarding, the boarders were often the last attack plan, with the cannons, grapeshot and musket fire from the tops sweeping the deck first. The 'party' were the finishing-up crew.

21st November 2017, 07:52 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Well made note Mark on the dull edge of the cutlass. if that were not the case, the wound suffered by the captain of the Shannon would have split his head like a melon. It seems funny with the sailors holding these in a fencing stance. These were anything but sharp cutting swords, and by these times, as Mark noted, more like bludgeons. Quite different than boarding in the earlier times of fighting sail and pirates. The notion of 'fencing' in the manner of every 'swashbuckling' movie or romantic flashing blades in literature is of course, just fun, but mostly nonsense.

21st November 2017, 08:44 PM	#5
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	"Use the point boys, save the edge for kindling." Considering the wide use of straight bladed cutlasses over the centuries, there is little doubt thrusting was considered effective. A lot of late sail training pictures and manuals seem to regard what one sees in lots of sabre notes. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html Compare George Silver to later traits such as Donald McBane and one still sees undeniable similarities applicable to both straight and curved blades. There are keggers of discussions re the veracity of cut vs thrust and reviewing those, as well as virtually any treatise on early modern swordsmanship, one can go back to Silver and find a simple truth that "Perfect fight stands upon both blow and thrust, therefore the thrust is not only to be used." However prefaced before that with the statement "That a blow comes continually as near as a thrust, and most commonly nearer, stronger, more swift, and is sooner done." At any rate, what we see in these photos is quite traditional sabre play but don't forget a long, long tradition of singlestick. Cheers GC

22nd November 2017, 05:53 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Both Jim and Glenn pointed out that the slashing attack with the cutlass wasn't practical. This makes total sense when we remember that ship's decks were extremely tight quarters and overcrowded. Although some longer swords made it to sea, the primary edged weapons were short hangers, cutlasses, dirks, etc. Thrusting weapons were the item of choice, evidenced by the reemergence of the ancient pike, much shortened to fit on a crowded ship's deck. The point is that it makes sense that the cutlass could be used as a sharpened bludgeon, but worked better as a stabbing implement like the pikes and dirks. As a medical person, I would say that a jab to the face or neck could obviously be lethal, penetrating the airway, severing the trachea, carotids and jugular. To the chest, there is penetration of the lungs, bronchus (all fatal), heart and great vessels (aortic arch), abdominal cavity with its vascular liver and pancreas. Also consider the cutlass in the use for DEFENSE of the ship vs the aggressor boarding party. Netting was placed over the ship to discourage boarders, with the pikemen stabbing through the netting as the enemy attempted to clamber onto the deck. Again, a cutlass would work far better here as a thrusting defensive weapon, stabbing through the tight ropes at those on the other side. It stands to reason that this is why, as Jim astutely pointed out, the cutlass became more of a blunt tool over the years.

22nd November 2017, 09:14 AM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams M ELEY, I agree entirely...and this is underlined by its use as a Police weapon..In the Navy many of the moves do appear to be as a thrust action...I would imagine also that in a melee it would be more a brawling weapon and in the final assault little room and no time to dawdle in posed sword stance... More the concept of "get in there and bash heads"! The stabbing effect would certainly be most useful in close fighting.