How many of the katars we know were court katars?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Most of the katars we see to day have relatively thin side guards, which would disqualify them as fighting weapons. To this come, as Robert writes in his last book, that some of them had older blades attached, which did not qualify them either.
But have a look at this one, it is Rajput 18th century, and 52 cm long. It is made in one piece of dark crystalline wootz,and sounds like a tuning fork when hit on wood.

Salaams Jens, To mirror the words of Jim I have to say what an excellent way you have of offering posts and the fact that you are the leader in your field...and I know you probably don't like people telling you that ... but its true.
One thing about the Katar you show which intrigues me is the strange addition of the VVVVVVV zig zag line at the Forte that I have seen before on Omani Battle Swords and wondered if it was significant.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hello Ibrahiim,
You are right - I dont like to be told that I am a leader in this field, as I am not - what I am, is a collector with an interest i the katars for many years, and through this interest I may have more knowledge than others.
To prove this to you. Yes, the 'VVV's', I dont know what they represent, but I too have seen them before. What about the hilt base? The hilt bases can be very different, but they are mostly represented in both the north and the south, and there are a lot of other questions I have, but I can only research few things at the time - I am sorry to say.

[A. G. Maisey]

I know nothing about katars, but I do understand a little about Hindu symbolism.
What I offer below is merely a suggestion for further research by those who may have an interest in the katar.

The katar can be regarded as principally a Hindu weapon form, and viewed from the perspective of Hindu symbolism, it is full of Shivatic iconography . The blade itself and fullers within the blade are triangles, in fact when in the hand, upward pointing triangles, symbolic of Shiva and the masculine principle.

Downward pointing triangles are symbolic of the female principle and of the Shakti of Shiva, Parvati. In the case of the VVVV in question, we can see positive and negative triangles, the physically present triangles, and the triangles represented by the spaces, thus we have both male and female triangles, male and female symbols

In this ornamentation of a series of triangles I believe it is possible that research may show that the number, and possibly the way in which the triangles are presented will have a specific interpretation, one that may be linked to the male/female principle but not directly representing this. Alternatively, if the VVVV border is read as male + female it can represent community and/or the cosmos.

It may be worthwhile to try to gain an understanding of the Hindu concept of the One God. In short, God is everywhere, nothing exists but God.

So if we look at a katar from the iconographic perspective, we have Shivatic symbolism and if we look at the VVVVV border we possibly have symbolism that can be understood in terms of Shivatic iconography.

I repeat:- the above is just a signpost. A little time spent on investigating the relevant questions will give more.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you very much for this mail, it is most interesting, and may lead to a bewtter understanding of the symbolism of decoration.

[Jim McDougall]

Alan, thank you so much for that fascinating insight into possibilities for these otherwise presumably decorative symbolisms. There are profound complexities in Hindu symbolism, but as Indian weaponry has in many cases been observed as holding much inherent value in these religious aspects it must be strongly considered. Often what seems to the uninitiated to be simple aesthetic decoration has much deeper meaning.

As you well point out, these kinds of symbolism transcend weapon forms but remain inherent in many which are attributed to those of Hindu Faith.

Jens, I know what you mean about recognizing your well known place in the study of these katars as just a collector, but powerfully advanced in this field. Very, very few collectors ever pursue the history, development and classification of these the way you have, and frankly I am extremely proud of what I have learned from you these many years.

That set aside, I look forward to the examples, and Alan's observation on this decoration is excellent. As Ibrahiim has noted, this distinct design of the linear 'V's does occur on Omani arms, and I wonder if perhaps the notable trade from coastal India to Arabia may account for such occurrence?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you Jim and interesting about the India Oman link regarding the zig zag pattern. Here are two Omani Swords (Sayf Yamaani)with the zig zag placed in the same part of the weapon as on the Katar; thus my query....

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Returning to the thread and the question which is what were the better quality Katars? I presume the daggers worn at court fall into the same category.. Pinterest has a lot of very ornate examples at:

https://www.pinterest.com/wmilitaria...rs/?lp=truebut

I picked out a couple to place here...The older example with a full handguard form being 17thC and the other showing both sides 18thC. It would seem reasonable to inspect Mughal Court paintings of the period for examples of artwork displaying Katar being worn however these are miniatures and fine detail is not easy to see...

As already stated surely koftgari and finely made scabbards and those examples with semi precious stones incorporated into the design would be likely suspects as court swords or as better quality Katar?