Child Keris

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, the hilt of this keris is simply very low quality work, it approximates a Jogja tunggak semi hilt, it is not worn down, just not much good to begin with.

Yes, the blade does appear to be old, yes, it might have lost some length due to age, but what we have in front of us is as it is now. It was never of much quality even when new, and and the dress it has been put into doesn't do it any favours.

I don't really care about what name anybody wants to put on it, call it a patrem if you will, call it a cunderik, call it a curigo, when all is said and done, it is a keris. Put it in a $2000 Solo ladrang and call it a wangkingan, its still a keris.

Frankly, if it was mine I'd re-dress it in some halfway respectable sandang walikat, so that in the future, whoever gets it next might feel inclined to hang on to it, rather than use for a packing piece, or recycle it as washers.

The thing is this --- at least in my eyes it is --- this is a keris that at one time somebody put time and effort into making. It might well have been made in a village, and made to the order of somebody who could not afford the work of an empu or a pande keris, so he just went along to the local smith.

The bloke who ordered it was proud of what he had when he got it, the maker had done the best he could. Over time it deteriorated and nobody respected the effort nor the intent that had gone into its creation. It deserves another chance. Keris are living links to the past, and they were not all objects of art made for royalty, some were simple representations of what simple people believed were keris and what they could afford.

We need to respect those who have gone before us, and part of that respect is the preservation of cultural belief. There is far, far too much focus in the entire keris world on the beauty of major works of art. The keris is deeply embedded in the culture that gave it birth, understanding both the culture and the keris involves more than the superficial appreciation of art.

In very simple terms we cannot hope to understand the Javanese keris unless we can understand the way in which Javanese people who observe the ways handed down to them by their forebears, see the world. This humble little keris was once alive, and should be given the chance to live again.

[Johan van Zyl]

Good reasoning, Allan, thank you. Of course, what you say goes for many other antique traditional edged weapons. As an example I offer the kukri.

On a light-hearted note: your use of the word "bloke" is a give-away for "down under". Here where I live we don't have "chaps", but we do have "ouks" and "boyties".

Regards
Johan

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, with my sincere apologies, a khukri is a tool/weapon.

A keris is something just a little bit different to that.

[Johan van Zyl]

Without a doubt the kukri and the keris are not equals, and nobody has suggested that. But consensus seems to have it that a keris, like a kukri, is also a weapon, besides being much more than that. The kukri is an excellent tool, as you know, as well as a weapon that has seen concerted wartime as well as "private" use. So what I have gleaned from much reading and discussing is that the olden-day Nepalese had at least some of the religious esteem and reverence of the kukri when using it, as had the Javanese and other groups for the keris. At least you must admit there are some similar points of comparison between the two....?

I fully respect and acknowledge your stand on the keris, and so what I am merely trying to say is that collectors of other traditional icons have through their research efforts uncovered/developed similar masses of knowledge pertaining to those items.

So without arguing with you, I still state my point of view.

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, you will get no arguments from me when it comes to the keris.

You may, or may not get discussion, but not argument.

In this particular case I prefer not to get into discussion in respect of the characteristics of khukris when compared to keris, for the very simple reason that I have very minimal knowledge of the cultural base of the khukri.

[Johan van Zyl]

I'm dead sure that if ever you and I could sit and talk around a coffee table, you would be able to offer me valuable insights also of the kukri. I think your extended experience in areas outside the keris would allow that.

I have found my searches for information on the kukri to be more problematic that my searches on Keris Warung Kopi! Hats off to you and so many dedicated keris collectors on this forum!

Thankfully
Johan

[David]

Fair enough Johan, but this is the Keris forum so any discussion or insights into the kukri are a bit out of place here.