Persian percussion gun repair.

rickystl · 24th September 2017, 06:24 PM

Hopefully, the Moderator will allow a couple pics of a Europen gun here just for comparison purposes.

Here are a couple pics of what is generally termed by collectors as a Northwest Trade gun (Fusil). These guns were made primarily in England for sale/trade to North America. Especially during the say 1790-1850 period. And most were probably traded to the North American Indians. Even though they were likely made by the thousands, there are relitively few survivors remaining, and are rare in any condition, and very desirous for collectors of this period. In the case of this gun, it is actually an original Belgium made copy of the English guns. Which adds further to it's rarity, but not necessarily to it's value.
It's condition is no better than Fair, converted from flintlock to percussion back in the period, as most were. It has seen heavy usage, and was probably used all the way till it's tumbler/sear broke. Even the barrel is held to the stock with two pieces of (later) wire, having it's barrel lugs coming unsoldered sometime in the past. But it's historical significance, and collector desire/value are such that no attempt at restoration would even be considered. A case of history over function. I'm simply the next caretaker for this gun. So this gun is the exact opposite of the Jazail on my previous post. Hope this gives you a better idea.

Rick

ariel · 24th September 2017, 09:59 PM

Thanks Rick!

Your position is noted and it clarifies a lot . End justifies the means, in a positive sense.

Again, thanks for the lesson.

estcrh · 25th September 2017, 03:10 AM

Sind percussion long gun, 63 inches, converted from matchlock. This has two stock splices, they do not appear to have been glued at all, how common was this, I have seen this before on Indian matchlocks.

qusko · 3rd February 2019, 06:44 PM

Adding another persian rifle here. Similar connection of two pieces of wood. A little bit different rifle butt.

David R · 6th February 2019, 09:27 PM

I have seen Western percussion muskets with a two piece stock as well, though they had a very well fitted mortise and tenon join rather than a V splice. Anything beyond the forward hand grip point contributes nothing to the structural integrity of the piece anyway.

kahnjar1 · 7th February 2019, 07:35 AM

This Sind also has a spliced stock, but only one splice, and never glued by the look of it.Simply held by the bands.
Stu

Pukka Bundook · 7th February 2019, 02:53 PM

Yes, spliced stocks not glued seems very common in Eastern arms.
The only concern is that they don't come apart with recoil, so have to be banded pretty tightly.
Some very nice arms in this thread!

All the best,
Richard.

24th September 2017, 06:24 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hopefully, the Moderator will allow a couple pics of a Europen gun here just for comparison purposes. Here are a couple pics of what is generally termed by collectors as a Northwest Trade gun (Fusil). These guns were made primarily in England for sale/trade to North America. Especially during the say 1790-1850 period. And most were probably traded to the North American Indians. Even though they were likely made by the thousands, there are relitively few survivors remaining, and are rare in any condition, and very desirous for collectors of this period. In the case of this gun, it is actually an original Belgium made copy of the English guns. Which adds further to it's rarity, but not necessarily to it's value. It's condition is no better than Fair, converted from flintlock to percussion back in the period, as most were. It has seen heavy usage, and was probably used all the way till it's tumbler/sear broke. Even the barrel is held to the stock with two pieces of (later) wire, having it's barrel lugs coming unsoldered sometime in the past. But it's historical significance, and collector desire/value are such that no attempt at restoration would even be considered. A case of history over function. I'm simply the next caretaker for this gun. So this gun is the exact opposite of the Jazail on my previous post. Hope this gives you a better idea. Rick Attached Images

25th September 2017, 03:10 AM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Sind percussion long gun, 63 inches, converted from matchlock. This has two stock splices, they do not appear to have been glued at all, how common was this, I have seen this before on Indian matchlocks. Attached Images

3rd February 2019, 06:44 PM	#4
qusko Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 62	Adding another persian rifle here. Similar connection of two pieces of wood. A little bit different rifle butt. Attached Images

7th February 2019, 07:35 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Another Sind with spliced stock This Sind also has a spliced stock, but only one splice, and never glued by the look of it.Simply held by the bands. Stu Attached Images

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24th September 2017, 09:59 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Rick! Your position is noted and it clarifies a lot . End justifies the means, in a positive sense. Again, thanks for the lesson.

6th February 2019, 09:27 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,116	I have seen Western percussion muskets with a two piece stock as well, though they had a very well fitted mortise and tenon join rather than a V splice. Anything beyond the forward hand grip point contributes nothing to the structural integrity of the piece anyway.

7th February 2019, 02:53 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Yes, spliced stocks not glued seems very common in Eastern arms. The only concern is that they don't come apart with recoil, so have to be banded pretty tightly. Some very nice arms in this thread! All the best, Richard.