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Old 5th September 2017, 01:09 AM   #1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post. I remember the Hasekura adventure and how he acquired the weapons in the Philipines. One of my questions about the so called Kastane he purchased is still being looked at since the blade is non typical and although a quillons style is fitted the blade seems to be much wider...similar in a way to the stone frieze blade. It (the Sendai Museum weapon) looks suspiciously like a Chinese blade.

Regarding the West African Dahomey sword ..or the write up with the weapon... it is conveniently some would say willy-nilly even... given the write up as having certainly bounced back from a deployment with the Portuguese Battle Fleet from Sri Lanka and having influence from their armoury... from the Kastane . This is doubtful since why would a machette tribal sword make such a journey and be given this most peculiar treatment? It appears as a flambouyant idea straight from the head of the author without any proof but as a seemingly fanciful notion.

On the other hand concerning the Cross cut into the broad leaf style of blade; it is plausible that some shades of Portuguese influence in their long association in the region may have occurred and wall art in caves bears this out to some degree. Black Crab swords with similar crosses are further evidence of such liaison but as for the weapons going off on tour with the Portuguese Armada for me it is a bridge too far...That does not rule out a hilt being brought back from such an adventure and possibly being presented to a chief... but that is a very different notion. If the hilt is not a bring back from the Indian Ocean then where is it from?... I have suggested that this is either a home grown carved big cat favoured by chieftains in Dahomey regions or perhaps a Storta Hilt perhaps as a gift. Looking at the skills of the Ivory carvers in the region I suggest that this is the origin. Home grown in other words.

Your inclusion of the South Indian sword from arts of the Muslim Knights is amazing. Here is a direct link in form from Sri Lanka's nearest neighbour even though the style of religion was slightly different the mirroring onto this weapon is clear and one which I would base my next survey... and refer to your excellent addition here. The net result of such findings although I need to show the architecture as wholly linked regionally it would in my view cast serious doubt on external influence and positive proof of the Kastane as entirely Home Grown (exempt the European later blade replacements)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

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Old 5th September 2017, 01:14 AM   #2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Here I bring on all the architectural details in picture form onto this thread from the other Sri Lankan epic.

First I make reference to #176 above where the weapons from arts of the Muslim Knights are shown thus a search light is shining on the South Indian weaponry shown there by Jim from

Quote"Arts of the Muslim Knight", Furasiyya Foundation, 2008 (p.206, #197). It is listed as Deccani, probably Bahamanid dynasty and of 15th century." Unquote.

Viewers may see a degree of Religious linkage from the adjacent Buddhist cultures and in particular from the main source India. Others may see the fact that The Great Buddha himself is said to have visited the country and that although there are different types of the religion they flowed like a tide in and out with large periods of time in one form or the other.

What the pictorial below shows is the obvious transition of architecture on the Kastane from Southern India and also mirrored from Tibetan weapons either direct or bounced in via Indian form.

The quillons are probably not quilons per se...They are Vajra and important tools and insignia in the Buddhist religion said to have been carried by The Great Buddha into Tibet personally and since the Kastana we know ...was never a Battle Field weapon these thunderbolts or diamonds that they represent were never meant to be for fighting but as badge of rank or court swords. For this reason it matters little that the finials comprising dragon heads are invariably closed on the blade in the narrowed throat and in direct contrast with any European type.

The deity comprising the main hilt is powerful represented by a Lion or Makara, hand carved and studded with precious stones.

The Tail represents another revered creature; The Peacock.

In the handguard we see several creatures including a Humanoid faced crocodile, probably Kurtimucha, in the Robert Hales picture at left where he also notes the provenance of the middle picture as Mysore or Madras.

Other Deities spill down the hand guard onto the cross guard area in typical Yali, dragon or monster form.

The scabbard is resplendent in decorative style culminating occasionally in a decorated ball perhaps a pearl or sometimes another zoomorphic arrangement.

Conclusion. Overall I see no external European involvement whatsoever moreover every inch of the Kastane cries out as Buddhist/Hindu style. The majority of influence appears from India thus it is from there that I suggest the form evolved. Tibet also offers strong reflections but it is not known to what extent each is measured. Except for late European blades being refitted to these exorbitant and magnificent hilts I confirm the importance of this sword as being solely produced in Sri Lankan workshops with no input visible from European sources.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 5th September 2017, 03:02 PM   #3
fernando
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Hi Jim,
I see that the image of the Benin sword belonging in the collection of Mister Rainer Daehnhardt makes its millionth appearance. Should i ever realize this picture would become viral, i wouldn't take part in such promotion as, despite the eventuality of its owner being so proud to possess such famous item, he might as well not be so fond of what has been written about him, for every time such picture shows up together with its text, as it comes in the book, it is tagged with a string of rejections in a mode of unpleasant, even caustic, adjectives and connotations, even occasionally based on misinterpretations, not making a distinction between the role of either book neither post author ... notwithstanding the recurrent assumption that the sword description belongs only to the book author and, as personally opined, its veracity being admitedly susceptible of implausibility, as timely quoted such not being an uncommon phenomenon. For i guess that, the only way for this picture appearance to cease being repeatedly tied to the whipping pole, is to humbly discourage its posting.


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Old 6th September 2017, 02:46 AM   #4
Jim McDougall
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WOW!
Actually the sword Mr. Daehnhardt has in his book is a most valid example, and serves well to illustrate the apparently numerous examples of hybrid or rehilted instances of these very distinct hilts.

Swords are famously known for being remounted, and married in often incongruent assemblies as they are refurbished with changing hands as heirlooms, trade items, diplomatic hybrids or any number of cases.

It seems to me that this sword is likely one such example. Every author has examples or references in their books that may be reconsidered in later times as new evidence or examples are found. Actually every author hopes and expects to be corrected as others work forward researching their subject matter and text. Most include notices in their forwards in the publication that they are responsible for any errors or material which may be disproven or reconsidered.
Consider that in my case as a writer, clearly most of what I express as comment or observation is quickly critiqued, whether refuted or rebutted and many times even agreed with..either way I think of it as constructive and often helpful in learning much in the manner I describe.

I do not agree that the Daehnhardt example should be censored out of dialogue regarding the Sinhalese kastane, as I have noted it is an example of hybrid in the spectrum of these hilts in other contexts.

The 'Sendai' example of c.1613 in Japan is another example of this distinct hilt form with what appears a 'foreign' blade type. Again, it serves as an example of this hilt in terminus post quem with well established provenance.
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Old 6th September 2017, 03:36 PM   #5
fernando
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You are an eternal cavalier Jim,
Critisizing or rebuting the same reference once or twice doesn't make it an endless target for pneumatic hammer activities . You are a writer and i ain't; so i am not in a position to actually consider whether all kinds of critiques are easily absorbable. Not that bringing up the same remarks again and again becomes tedious but ... i say no more .

I did like your approach on the syncretism phenomena when attending to the melange of European and African symbology. I am translating a Belgium paper on Congolese colonial swords compiled from various researchers and it all appoints that the perforated cross on the quillon discs of swords introduced by Portuguese would be one of such archetypes.


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Old 9th September 2017, 08:22 AM   #6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Default The Sendai Museum Kastane.

Jim, your post at 180 states The 'Sendai' example of c.1613 in Japan is another example of this distinct hilt form with what appears a 'foreign' blade type. Again, it serves as an example of this hilt in terminus post quem with well established provenance.[/QUOTE]
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Salaams Jim, It is indeed the case that the Sendai Museum example is something of an anomaly since the blade is probably oriental; perhaps Chinese as the detail from the thread shows. This is absolutely not Sri Lankan and is a heavy Machete form blade. This is not entirely unexpected in a location like the Filipines where a ship borne weapon rehilted and likely as a ships cutlass type was discovered in the market place by Hasekura ..It is without scabbard... not surprisingly. It therefor joins the story somewhat in the shade since it is a rehilt and out of area at that. It is, however, an interesting diversion.

In fact it is recorded here ...

Japan in Philippine history
By Ambeth R. Ocampo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
10:42 pm | Thursday, October 31st, 2013

Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome.

Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines.

(Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines.)

There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=kris+kastane by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below.

See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return;

Quote"Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer, and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum."Unquote

Shown below clearly the tip of the Sendai Museum example showing typical Chinese decoration...on a broad heavy Machete style.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 9th September 2017, 09:44 AM   #7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Default The Sendai Kastane Example.

On reflection my impression is of an oriental broad Machete blade of the style Yu Tao Dao better known as a Fish Head or Shark Head Sabre. Here is an example to compare shown below with a white hilt;

The monster fish decoration can be seen near the tip of the Sendai example and compares below with decoration at the throat of the weapon placed by The Late Vandoo (RIP) at thread on another Chinese weapon.

I believe the fish monster is the Makara and support that with detail at http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2...al-makara.html where about 20 examples exist some going back to Chinese cave detai in the 5th Century AD.

The stone Makara carving is evidence of the Makara form on the sendai example etc. The big picture is Chinese whilst the smaller is in Lucknow Museum.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 9th September 2017, 09:32 PM   #8
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Ibrahiim, , once again your tenacious online research amazes me!
I have been going through these old threads, notes and references, and trying to regain my footing in these discussions over the years.

It seems that the manner of investigative study into the history of many weapon forms becoming an often complex, tedious and frustrating process involving many side roads, red herrings and misconceptions. In looking back at the discussions here, we can see many losing patience with the often highly detailed presentations of support and evidence. However, it is through these kinds of discussions that so much is achieved in better understanding the history of these arms.

I had honestly forgotten the nature of the 'Sendai' example, and that it was indeed a Chinese blade with the mythical beast head situated in the blade decoration. It is clearly coupled with a hilt of Ceylonese character, and as noted was apparently acquired as a souvenier along with a keris in Manila near the end of the Keisho mission about 1619.

I think the point of these comparisons is mostly noting the widespread influence of these distinctively styled hilts, whether directly from examples actually of Sri Lankan origin, or variant interpretations which seem to have occurred in many other cultural spheres.

We know that in Holland in the 17th c, numerous hilts on hangers and other edged weapons reflect such influences with mythical beasts and figures that appear Asian , some very much like the Buddhist style lion heads. In these times the portrait of Alexander Popham wearing what appears to be a kastane in about mid 17th century suggests the favor for such exotica among merchants and as status oriented dress weapons.

It is typically difficult, at least for me, to determine exactly what most of these mythical creatures actually represent as there seems to be a degree of latitude in how they are interpreted. However it appears that the range of interpretation has resulted from the artistic perception of local artisans who are fashioning from the influence of the varied forms which have diffused into many areas.

In once again looking to the 'Benin' sword, which is a interesting example of such interpretation, it appears of course that this indirect influence may have had some part in the zoomorphic form of the hilt. As Ibrahiim has well pointed out, the Dahomean ruler Glele (1858-1898) did use the lion as one of his leitmotif. It would seem that most of the ceremonial swords would carry such symbolism on the blade rather than in zoomorphic form on the hilt. This is where I think the 'Cingalese' influence suggested by Daehnhardt
derives (interestingly the example with gold lion on the blade Ibrahiim showed has similar blade with mid rib at forte) and the openwork cross and the downturned quillons reflect Portuguese influence.

In both instances, these influences are traditionally applied as they refer to influences long since removed from Dahomean regions.
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