A hunting sword with Damascus blade of Yataghan type

[Oliver Pinchot]

Privet Tatyana,

This is a very nice example of German or Austrian work in Ottoman style,
dating from the second half of the 18th century. The yataghan form was used by the Pandours, as you noted, as well as many other Balkan groups. By association, it became popular amongst officers (famously, Von Trenck) and this is where the unusual combination of hilt and blade originally arose.

[ariel]

The yataghan form often entered European weapon design.
French regulation Chassepot ( from which modern-made fake yataghans are sometimes made for a quick e-bay sale to abject novices), Austrian Pandour examples, occasional Russian examples ( sometimes even marked as "ZOF", Zlatoust Weapon Factory) and even Italian ones: G. Labruna from Naples. There are some French examples shown in the Splendeur des Armes Orientales, AFAIK ( I can check in the evening at home).

However, this one (IMHO) is more of a hunting variety, based on the quillons.

[Tatyana Dianova]

Thank you all for the great information and for the interesting discussion!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Privet Tatyana,

This is a very nice example of German or Austrian work in Ottoman style,
dating from the second half of the 18th century. The yataghan form was used by the Pandours, as you noted, as well as many other Balkan groups. By association, it became popular amongst officers (famously, Von Trenck) and this is where the unusual combination of hilt and blade originally arose.

Ahah!!! von Trenck!!!
We know that these yataghan type blades were used in certain European armies in Pandour-type units long after the original units were disbanded mid 18th c. These large yataghan type blades seem to have been favored by cavalry officers of French cavalry around 1809 possibly slightly earlier in some Balkan regions, Illyrian if I recall.

Yataghan type blades were even in some consideration as various forms were evolving in British cavalry swords in the opening years of the 19th century, and I believe a stirrup hilt cavalry example with yataghan style blade was carried by an officer of the 10th Hussars at Waterloo.

As has been well described, the term 'damascus' is rather collectively used in describing the various types of 'watered steel' or patterned, and as also noted very confusing, so detail best left to our metallurgists here.

It does seem that imitation forms of these kinds of steel were being made in some shops in Solingen, as well as in Russia (I think Tula) around this time, but production was extremely limited. There have been examples of other European officers swords with highly patterned steel blades known but again, not sure of exact character.

The combination of these 'hirschfanger' style hilts were on occasion combined with 'oriental' style blades in carrying forward the convention of this exotic fashion favored by the earlier pandour forces as mentioned.

[Tatyana Dianova]

Very interesting Jim, thank you a lot!

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely Tatyana! very nice example with some intriguing history, thank you for sharing it with us

[kronckew]

..at the other end of the spectrum, here's one i just acquired, appears to be a yat bladed hunting sword/hanger. blade looks like the latter half of the 19c yataghan bayonet type popular thru europe. appears to have a side shell or rain guard on the right side. should arrive in a few days. no dimensions or markings were mentioned by the vendor.

organised mounted hunting was indeed the province of the rich, especially the nobility, but they also supplied their staff with these weapons, plain to start, and increasingly ornate as they wanted to show off their ability to equip their helpers.

hunting swords, hangers, daggers, trousse, were carried by the lower classes, usually more functional than their bosses more ornate models that may not even be sharpened or ever tasted blood.

as noted, the naval officers liked the handy hunting hangers too. spain issued some nice yat blades artillery swords for the last couple of decades in the 19c, some of which wound up in the states after our little war with them in cuba. i have one model 1881 marked 1895 and Toledo i posted earlier here somewhere...i like yataghan-like sharp pointies.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by kronckew

..at the other end of the spectrum, here's one i just acquired, appears to be a yat bladed hunting sword/hanger. blade looks like the latter half of the 19c yataghan bayonet type popular thru europe. appears to have a side shell or rain guard on the right side. should arrive in a few days. no dimensions or markings were mentioned by the vendor.

organised mounted hunting was indeed the province of the rich, especially the nobility, but they also supplied their staff with these weapons, plain to start, and increasingly ornate as they wanted to show off their ability to equip their helpers.

hunting swords, hangers, daggers, trousse, were carried by the lower classes, usually more functional than their bosses more ornate models that may not even be sharpened or ever tasted blood.

as noted, the naval officers liked the handy hunting hangers too. spain issued some nice yat blades artillery swords for the last couple of decades in the 19c, some of which wound up in the states after our little war with them in cuba. i have one model 1881 marked 1895 and Toledo i posted earlier here somewhere...i like yataghan-like sharp pointies.

I always wondered why hunting swords come with those curious sea shell ornaments on the side. So you reckon they are rain guards to keep the rain out of the scabbard and avoid corrosion of the blade?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Victrix

I always wondered why hunting swords come with those curious sea shell ornaments on the side. So you reckon they are rain guards to keep the rain out of the scabbard and avoid corrosion of the blade?

Basically, yes. they were of course a decorative addition as well.

earlier ones i am told had the 'shell' or nagel perpendicular to the blade where it could protect the hand if used in combat, like the re-purposed french hunting/GB naval hanger one of mine below from around 1705, they transitioned to having them tilted further and further forward (see the other later ones also below in sequence, of other members from an earlier post) till they were parallel to the blade, covering the scabbard mouth. many even earlier swords had a leather version, at the blade/grip junction that were 'rain guards' that similarly covered the scabbard mouth, which got lost over time.