Sudanese warrior question

Jim McDougall · 22nd August 2017, 04:36 PM

Thank you Iain! and I as I had hoped, you have added exactly the edifications and notes much needed to better detail these developments with kaskara. I think Stone used the term drawn from Burton (1884) where indeed the Baghirmi usage was properly placed. It is surprising that Burton, an almost obsessive linguist and copious writer of footnotes, did not bother to note the kaskara term. This omission, given his reputation, seems to have implied that the term was broadly in use for these broadswords, and led to the sundry application that emerged via the Stone reference.

I did not realize that those Alexandria swords were diplomatic gifts, but that would explain that they were typical inscribed in Arabic. I had forgotten that detail, and as you note, far from being 'trophies'.

Thank you for adding the notes on Sennar as well, and I was trying to recall that very important kingdom, who seem to have been well aligned with the Mamluks, who had been filtering out of Egypt into those Sudanic regions for some time especially with their disastrous crushing by the Ottomans in 1517. They were well emplaced there when the Sultan from Egypt invaded there c. 1821 and finished the Mamluks as well as overtaking these regions to Ottoman rule. The ultimate beginning of the Mahdist rebellions of 1880s.

I totally agree, most of the blades we see are far more contemporary than these early ones. I also agree that the established trade between Europe and the Ottomans provided a pretty standard supply , and that the instances of notable crusader period items that have been discovered (as we know) were more of one off anomalies than surplus offal being unloaded into these markets.

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22nd August 2017, 04:36 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Thank you Iain! and I as I had hoped, you have added exactly the edifications and notes much needed to better detail these developments with kaskara. I think Stone used the term drawn from Burton (1884) where indeed the Baghirmi usage was properly placed. It is surprising that Burton, an almost obsessive linguist and copious writer of footnotes, did not bother to note the kaskara term. This omission, given his reputation, seems to have implied that the term was broadly in use for these broadswords, and led to the sundry application that emerged via the Stone reference. I did not realize that those Alexandria swords were diplomatic gifts, but that would explain that they were typical inscribed in Arabic. I had forgotten that detail, and as you note, far from being 'trophies'. Thank you for adding the notes on Sennar as well, and I was trying to recall that very important kingdom, who seem to have been well aligned with the Mamluks, who had been filtering out of Egypt into those Sudanic regions for some time especially with their disastrous crushing by the Ottomans in 1517. They were well emplaced there when the Sultan from Egypt invaded there c. 1821 and finished the Mamluks as well as overtaking these regions to Ottoman rule. The ultimate beginning of the Mahdist rebellions of 1880s. I totally agree, most of the blades we see are far more contemporary than these early ones. I also agree that the established trade between Europe and the Ottomans provided a pretty standard supply , and that the instances of notable crusader period items that have been discovered (as we know) were more of one off anomalies than surplus offal being unloaded into these markets.