Need Help to Identify Sepuh (Old) / Kamardikan Java Keris

[Johan van Zyl]

Bejo, I'm always intrigued when I view these beautiful photos the members post. It adds to our knowledge & insight. Thank you! And it looks like cardboard is not a bad background to lay the keris on.

I see what Alan & Gustav mean when they say the ron dhas are not identically cut. I had earlier not given the ron dhas a second look.

Interesting (to me, at least) is the stories behind the acquisition of the kerisses. If credible, they form the history of the keris in question. I always try to research the background of my acquisitions (mostly non-keris ) and find it whets the appetite!

I loved that ukiran when I first saw it. It looks so well-made.

A question (maybe a dumb one): were these pre- or post- WWII kerisses (like Bejo's) made with a steel core, or is the metal used of industrial manufacture with a satisfactory carbon content? I do not see a steel core.

[A. G. Maisey]

Both these keris have a core Johan, and it is very clear.

The easiest place to see it in both keris is in the wadidang, the wide curve at the blade base, the core is the narrow black border between the blade edge and the start of the pamor.

Joe, keris were made in Madura right through into the 1920's at least, I was given one with a broken blade that had been made in Madura, and bought in Malang not long before the Japanese occupation. It is a really terrible keris, but it is a keris

In Solo during the 1920's, and I believe through into the 1930's, the court "empu" was M.Ng. Wirasukadgo. I have not seen any record of him being created empu, but in 1923 his rank was Abdi Dalem Mantri Pandhe. I don't know for sure, but I do not believe that anybody followed him.

Keris and other weapon production was banned by the Japanese.

There was some spasmodic production during the 1950's and 1960's, Empu Suparman had made perhaps two keris before he began to make seriously at the end of the 1970's, and during this early period, he had repaired and altered many keris.

In Jogja a craftsman with the formal name of Bp. Prawirodihardjo produced keris and other related items for the keris trade. He used genuine good quality old keris and etc as his models. His family had been in this business for a number of generations. He was known in the keris trade but invisible outside the keris trade, his clients were dealers. He passed away a number of years ago and he was the last of his line.

Apart from Empu Suparman, and Bp. Prawirodihardjo I have been told that there were always a few ordinary smiths in Central Jawa who were able to produce a keris blade, I believe most of these people were to be found around Koripan and Godean, and in a village near Boyolali that I have forgotten the name of.

The revival of keris culture began with Dietrich Drescher and Djeno Harumbrojo in 1972, but it had never really died.

[Gustav]

Joe,

Also, I have tried to contact the seller of my keris. He told me that the keris was bought from a village in Magetan. The previous owner got this keris from his parents. Although there is not 100% guarantee that this keris is created in Magetan, but he got the keris there.

such a coincidence! And so well placed in time.

"Keris moves in mysterious ways."

All I can say, having handled a Keris by Paku Rodji, some time before I did see the article, is, that the Greneng of it wasn't at all similar to the quite distinctive one presented here, it had that small Stupa-like carving indeed, it didn't had the tightening around the Pesi and it's Garap was of good quality. It had also less Pamor indeed.

But, as I said, the feeling handling it was similar to the one I posted.

If there is a possibility for it to be a work from Magetan, I guess it would be done before the time of Empu Paku Rodji.

[Bejo]

Hello Johan,

Thank you for your comment,
I only try to make the photo the best as I can, so the other member can give more accurate opinion based on the photos. Yes, cardboard is one of the simple option we have to take a keris photo
When I take a photo of keris, usually I add small object under the blade, so the keris photo will not have much distortion.

Originally Posted by Gustav

"Keris moves in mysterious ways."

Hello Gustav,

I really agree with that statement. Happened to me sometimes. Just dont look for the mysteriousness, but be grateful when you feel it.

Just my guess, maybe my keris is done by the Panjak. Maybe he still in the process for perfection, so there is still some rough work in this keris.



Hello A. G. Maisey. Thank you for sharing information about Empu keris. It gives me better knowledge to know more about keris.


Thank you,

Best regards,

Joe

[A. G. Maisey]

You are most welcome Joe.

Yeah, I think you could be right about the possible maker. In fact, I think it is possible that more than a few of the lesser keris that we see were made by somebody associated with keris, rather than empus, or pandai keris, or even smiths.

In Solo during the 1980's, there was a m'ranggi who worked for me, in fact I knew him for 12 or 14 years, and he made a few keris. They were Solo pattern, and pretty good productions, he had a smith make the forging then he carved it. Also one of Pak Pauzan's panjaks (striker) used to make keris, he forged them in Pakpus' forge in his own time and took them home to carve.

[Johan van Zyl]

Alan, thank you for your kind initial reply to my query. You say the core is clearly visible. That, of course, is when you know what you are looking at, and you know what to look for. I am struggling to see the core, and the reason is that I don't know what to look for.

What is a core? In my limited knowledge, a core is a hard steel sheet inserted between the laminated pieces at a certain stage of the forging process. I understand by that, that the core metal is virtually covered (hidden from sight) by the pamor. Inspecting post #3, in which Bejo gave us good pics, I see with my untrained eye a refurbished blade (appearing so new as to have been made yesterday) with a laminated pattern that looks like islands of silver-colored metal lying in a sea of black metal. Of course, we have here an iron-pamor combination. But what does the pamor consist of? It would be "dark" iron and either nickel or white (phosphorus-rich) iron. It gives a sharp contrast. But in Bejo's blade I see ONLY two colors: very light and very dark. Where does the core steel lie? And what is the color of the core steel? Surely it should run all along the edge.

Alan, you say the core is the narrow black border between the blade edge and the start of the pamor. Well, then ALL the very dark metal I see = core material! Can that be? I thought the steel core was nearly fully imbedded between the pamor layers, and that only a very narrow strip can be seen at the very edge. This I fail to see in Bejo's pics. So it is clear from the above I am as confused as ever!

I'm making many statements in the above as if they are facts. However, there is a purpose to that. If I do not report what I think I see, no-one can help me see where my reasoning is faulty. Please could someone put me on the right track? Thank you!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

Please could someone put me on the right track? Thank you!

Hello Johan, at this picture you can see clearly the core. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Detlef