Turkish shamshir ?

[M.carter]

Thanks alot Jeff for that pic. As you can probably see, that sword has new fittings, but seems like its got an old Hungarian blade.




I also had many other pics of Syrian saifs with hungarian blades (they seem the most common type of non-persian trade blade), but I deleted them all.

This is another one, however its a "full" antique:

[Tim Simmons]

I am going to chip in with this trade blade, these are all so similar it is quite fascinating. This has horn grips, they do not look like buffalo to me but I would not really know and they could come from many other animals rather than rhino. Tim

[ariel]

The last one is a Bedouin sword (Sinai, Negev, Transjordan).
They used any blade they could put their hands on...
I would be careful attributing any blade to Hungary without unequivocal evidence: inscriptions.

[Andy Davis]

Seems an awful lot of speculation here. When was Hungary trading with Syria? This sort of thing can happen on an individual basis but on the scale that is being suggested would seem to indicate some major trade route or agrement, which must have a historical record.

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Andy Davis

Seems an awful lot of speculation here. When was Hungary trading with Syria? This sort of thing can happen on an individual basis but on the scale that is being suggested would seem to indicate some major trade route or agrement, which must have a historical record.

Hi Andy,

I am not sure why you think this is largely speculation? Burton and Elgood confirm Mark's observations of these 19th c. Hungarian blades. I think it is highly likely he is correct. Other possibilities for your blade are Solingen or Caucasian, impossible for me to tell with out marks.

Jeff

[ham]

Jeff confirms what several have said; Elgood takes up this subject in some detail, more Forumites ought to consider it.
Don't recall whether it was in Elgood or elsewhere-- bedouins referred to a particular type of blade as majjar which certainly supports the contention that they distinguished Hungarian from among other blades. The word exists in Hungarian of course, as well as Turkish and I think passed thence into Arabic.
All manner of European blades were traded through the Porte, both Eastern European, Caucasian copies thereof, and others. I am not aware of any record of their being traded in Arabia directly by Hungarians.
As for the term Kurda I would argue that rather than deriving from the Huingarian for "sword," it is a variation on Gurda which as we know refers to Caucasian-made blades specifically.

Ham

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Hi Andy,

I am not sure why you think this is largely speculation? Burton and Elgood confirm Mark's observations of these 19th c. Hungarian blades. I think it is highly likely he is correct. Other possibilities for your blade are Solingen or Caucasian, impossible for me to tell with out marks.

Jeff

Off course Jeff, Im not totally assuming its a Hungarian blade, I also said it could be a local copy, or another kind of european blade. The absence of any marks makes it difficult to any possibilities.

Andy, are you sure there are no marks here or there?

[Andy Davis]

There seems to be some insistance that there must be marks on this blade, so I have decided to attempt to clean it. Though it has a very deep and dark pattina, i'll just have to look and see what I can find.
I know who to blame
You say, durring this period, Syria was under Otterman rule. As I think I asked, what period are we talking about here?
Andy

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by Andy Davis

Seems an awful lot of speculation here. When was Hungary trading with Syria? This sort of thing can happen on an individual basis but on the scale that is being suggested would seem to indicate some major trade route or agrement, which must have a historical record.

Dont forget that Syria at that time was part of the Ottoman empire, which I think (correct me if im wrong) did trade with Hungary, so Hungarian blades reaching Damascus wasnt a hard job at all.