Persian shamshir destroyed by USPS!!!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Will M

If the blade is not cracked it could be straightened and the scabbard reshaped, nothing is impossible.

Yes, but emphasis should be put on the word "could", with the unspoken caveat that nothing in life is guaranteed except death and taxes. As a restorer, I have encountered blades bent in varying degrees, in different locations along their length, and in odd ways as well (twisted, and even distorted edge-to-back rather than side-to-side). Most cases do turn out well, fortunately. On the more severe ones I consult with colleagues who are sword MAKERS, such as Vincent Evans (pattern welding and differential heat treat), and Ric Furrer (he makes wootz in the traditional manner).

Blades bent at the forte CAN be less risky than those distorted nearer the tip. I once fixed a katana blade that was tweaked about 5 degrees from true just ahead of the habaki, and managed to do it "cold". Like most Far Eastern blades, the steel is hard only along the edge, and in many cases, the "hamon" or crystallized zone is narrower at the root. Fortunately, this made the job quite doable. I've also straightened a few Moro swords that were bent in the same region, on those blades the hardening really doesn't start until a few inches further towards the business end, so the metal is less brittle there.

Wootz can be another matter. The material has a higher carbon content than the range for "tool steels" which most sword blades fall into, and is inherently more brittle as a result. I am surprised that this shamshir could have been bent that much without snapping outright. But my years of polishing these blades has shown that some of them ARE differentially hardened (after a full polish and an etch, a "hamon" does appear along the edge on many Indian and Persian wootz blades). This crystalline edge zone, on Islamic sabers, tends to begin somewhat ahead of the hilt. And when skilfully etched, you can see at the forte a gradation in steel color corresponding to oblique bands or zones, which tell me that the smith treated the metal in stages to optimize the degree of hardness and resiliency as required in different areas. This is confirmed empirically when polishing, the forte area does not "resist" the abrasive action of the stone nearly as much as the fully hardened cutting edge. In such case, the steel at the forte would be more ductile and thus pose less of a risk of breakage than with one of those that was uniformly heat treated so that it it is just hard (therefore, likely to be brittle) throughout its length.

In the case of a severe bend or with wootz that is quenched to uniform hardness, the risk lies with whether or not the steel has been stressed sufficiently to have created internal faults that will develop into a real problem (hairline crack, or a crack spreading to complete breakage) when the metal is moved back the other way. This is where consultation with my swordsmith buddies, and a frank exposition of the risks with the customer, are in order before formulating a POA.

[rickystl]

OH NO !!!! Estcrh, I am so sorry this happened. That is a beautiful sword!!!
It seems like this always happens to the valuable items. I would be flaming angry. @#$%^&* As mentioned above, it looks like someone either lowered the forks from a forklift unto it, or backed over it.
Historically, I've had good success with USPS. I had only one incident with a Balkan made pistol with a silver stock. It arrived with the grip area severly bent and a small crack in the bend area. But the damage was primarily due to the worst boxing and packing I've ever seen. Especially for an item like this. And this from a gun dealer, who should know better. I decided to keep the pistol - but - with 70% of what I paid for it refunded to me. Fortunately, between my old gunsmith and his Fater in Law, who was a genuine old time Silversmith, it was repaired masterfully. Cannot detect the repair.
Generally, double-wall boxes with lots of bubble wrap will work. But I use everything from PVC pipe to pine wood crates, depending on what I'm shipping.
Again, so sorry this happened to you. I hope you at least get a full reimbersement.

Rick

[Will M]

Philip you do have good points. I too straighten blades occasionally. Always a risk to some degree and taking into account what you mentioned.
The blade is worthless in its current condition so I see no alternative but to attempt a repair.

[A. G. Maisey]

This sword is out of my area of study, however, I do have a background in knife & sword making and I have straightened badly bent blades. My work has always been forge work, not stock removal.

In my opinion this blade should be dismounted and given to a competent and appropriate sword-smith to repair.

[ariel]

As it is now, the sword may be covered by the insurance. If it is not returned, the insurance is void. And, if the attempt of straightening fails, the buyer will be left with a broken sword and no money.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by ariel

As it is now, the sword may be covered by the insurance. If it is not returned, the insurance is void. And, if the attempt of straightening fails, the buyer will be left with a broken sword and no money.

Yes of course, he has to send it back.
Plus the scabbard is damaged too...

[GePi]

Umm, it seems the sword has come back to live.

Perhaps the listing got reposted automatically, but perhaps someone should contact the seller...

I too would like to add my condolences. Literally the same week I was delivered a shamshir (the package simply dumped in front of my apartment door without me being present) with the point literally sticking 2 inches outside of the package! Luckily no damage to the blade and no blood spurts in the surrounding area, so it seems I dodged a bullet there. Exceptionally bad packaging, from a reputable acution house no less...

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, all true, my thoughts were directed at preservation, not remuneration.

[silberschatzimsee]

That tip with the plastic pipe is very good. With smaller diameterpipes i trsnsport my fishing rods in the plane.

[Helleri]

I like using cardboard edge/corner reinforcement for objects that are significantly heavier and hard than a box they would be shipped or moved in.

[Nathaniel]

Estcrh,

Sorry to see the shipping tragedy. It reminds me of a similar USPS incident I had a couple years ago when I bought a pole arm from a respected forum member.

Note before:

[Nathaniel]

And imagine my shock and horror when the postal worker brought this out to the counter for me to sign for!!! I told the postal worker are you serious you want me to sign for this!?!? And they just shrugged and said my best bet was to fill out a damage claim form Luckily this was fully insured! But still would have rather had a straight pole arm! Because the post paid the claim USPS keeps the pole arm!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

And image that sinking feeling when the postal worker brought this out to the counter for me to sign for!!!

Nathaniel, thanks for posting your pictures, I know exactly how you feel, even though I will get the money I paid returned it hurts to see this happen to any antique. The damage to your naginata looks just like what happened to my shamshir.

As I mentioned earlier, I just shipped a naginata much like yours in order to get some missing fittings replaced (habaki and tsuba), Tim Pepin the owner of Samuraisword.com just messaged me that it arrived safely but after what happened to the shamshir I kept thinking about how I could have done a better job of packing, I did not add any wood strips etc which would have greatly increased the chance of avoiding any damage to the blade or shaft, next time I will do that just as added protection.


Below is a picture that Artzi of Oriental Arms just sent me showing how he has reinforced for shipping the Chinese bow I just purchased. A great example that I intend to copy in the future.