Islamic bow for I.D. and comment

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The Mamluks were, at one distinct point in history, the greatest body of fighting men in the world and the quintessence of the mounted warrior............... the Ottoman Empire whose new slave soldiers, the Janissaries, would be the Mamluks' final nemesis.

Actually I believe it was not the Janissaries that finally defeated the Mamluks, it was Muhammad Ali Pasha, an Ottoman Albanian general who defeated the Egyptian Mamluks in the early 1800s. After the withdrawal of the French occupiers of Egypt, Muhammad Ali Pasha devised a plan to murder the whole remaining lot of them by luring Mamluk leaders to a celebration and ambushing them, the rest were eventually hunted down and killed, supposedly very few got away. Muhammad Ali Pasha declared himself the "khedive" of Egypt and interesting enough it was Europeans who controlled Egypt until the early 1900s.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Actually I believe it was not the Janissaries that finally defeated the Mamluks, it was Muhammad Ali Pasha, an Ottoman Albanian general who defeated the Egyptian Mamluks in the early 1800s. After the withdrawal of the French occupiers of Egypt, Muhammad Ali Pasha devised a plan to murder the whole remaining lot of them by luring Mamluk leaders to a celebration and ambushing them, the rest were eventually hunted down and killed, supposedly very few got away. Muhammad Ali Pasha declared himself the "khedive" of Egypt and interesting enough it was Europeans who controlled Egypt until the early 1900s.

Yes correct but he used his Janissaries to do the deed ...The Mamluks were surrounded and shot to pieces. Only one got away and of the few others that were not at that wipe out... They were mostly hunted down and killed.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Yes correct but he used his Janissaries to do the deed ...The Mamluks were surrounded and shot to pieces. Only one got away and of the few others that were not at that wipe out... They were mostly hunted down and killed.

According to everything that I have read he used his Albanian troops, he then basically took control over Egypt and the Ottoman government could do nothing to stop him.

Wikipedia.
"The French withdrawal left a power vacuum in Egypt. Mamluk power had been weakened, but not destroyed, and Ottoman forces clashed with the Mamluks for power. During this period of turmoil Muhammad Ali used his loyal Albanian troops to work with both sides, gaining power and prestige for himself......The Mamluks still posed the greatest threat to Muhammad Ali. They controlled Egypt for more than 600 years, and over that time they extended their rule systematically south along the Nile River to Upper Egypt. Muhammad Ali’s approach was to eliminate the Mamluk leadership, then move against the rank and file. Muhammad Ali invited the Mamluk leaders to a celebration at the Cairo Citadel in honor of his son, Tusun Pasha, who was to lead a military expedition into Arabia. The event was held on March 1, 1811. When the Mamluks had gathered at the Citadel, and were surrounded by Muhammad Ali's troops, he had his troops kill them. After the leaders were killed, Muhammad Ali dispatched his army throughout Egypt to rout the remainder of the Mamluk forces."

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Actually I believe it was not the Janissaries that finally defeated the Mamluks, it was Muhammad Ali Pasha, an Ottoman Albanian general who defeated the Egyptian Mamluks in the early 1800s. After the withdrawal of the French occupiers of Egypt, Muhammad Ali Pasha devised a plan to murder the whole remaining lot of them by luring Mamluk leaders to a celebration and ambushing them, the rest were eventually hunted down and killed, supposedly very few got away. Muhammad Ali Pasha declared himself the "khedive" of Egypt and interesting enough it was Europeans who controlled Egypt until the early 1900s.

I am sorry, estcrh, but the Mamluk Sultanate was defeated and destroyed as such by Selim I in 1516, beign the Mamluks no match for the Ottoman artillery and janissaries. Since then, the Mamluks were the already defeated and decadent subjects of the Ottoman Empire which, in the time of the French invassion, also was in decadence (as all empires will be, and vanish, sic transit gloria mundi). They were defeated on the battlefield by the Ottomans, and not by treason. Muhammad Ali Pasha only recovered Egypt. And since the Mamluks were already unruly and useless, he killed their leaders in an ambush. As many christian kings and princes did in their time in Europe. From then he was only nominal subordinate of the Ottomans, given the fact that the aforementioned empire was in total decadence, as said.

Regards

P.D. Already downloaded the book from the estcrh's link. It is the same. Thank you very much to both of you.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

They were defeated on the battlefield by the Ottomans, and not by treason.

Gonzalo, I did not say that the Egyptian Mamluks were defeated by treason, I said that the Mamluks were not defeated in Egypt by the Janassaries, the treason was Ali taking control over Egypt and proclaiming himself as the "Khedive".

[estcrh]

The bow was found in Japan, an unusual place to find an Indo-Persian bow. It is covered with illustrations, cows or bulls and military men, I am thinking that this is a Persian portrait, any thoughts would be helpful.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by estcrh

The bow was found in Japan, an unusual place to find an Indo-Persian bow. It is covered with illustrations, cows or bulls and military men, I am thinking that this is a Persian portrait, any thoughts would be helpful.

I am not an expert on this field (or any other), but the portrait seems to be Naser al-Din Shah Qajar, though I can be mistaken. He conducted intense diplomatic activities. Maybe a diplomatic gift to Japan rulers? After all, he searched for allies on the whole world against the Russians, and the Japanese could be taken as natural allies at that moment.

Thank you for all your photographs, estcrh.

Regards

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

the portrait seems to be Naser al-Din Shah Qajar, though I can be mistaken.

Good guess Gonzalo, so this bow was made in the mid to late 1800s at the earliest, the comparison between the portrait on the bow and his photograph is very similar.

It is not in good condition, maybe someone has an idea of how to preserve it. Persian bows are rather rare.

Naser al-Din Shah Qajar (16 July 1831 – 1 May 1896) (Persian: ناصرالدین شاه قاجار‎‎), also Nassereddin Shah Qajar, was the King of Persia from 5 September 1848 to 1 May 1896 when he was assassinated.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ganzalo, I did not say that the Egyptian Mamluks were defeated by treason, I said that the Mamluks were not defeated in Egypt by the Janassaries, the treason was Ali taking control over Egypt and proclaiming himself as the "Khedive".

Ok, sorry for that, estcrh. But at that time the Mamluks were only the problematic and unruly subjects of the Ottomans, already defeated but kept by the Ottomans to manage Egypt for them. Not anymore the great Mamluks who defeated the Mongol armies. They were defeated by fireweapons and more modern tactics, since although they have some fireweapons, they didn´t learn how to use and produce them properly. That, and all the complexities involved in the decadence of their own sultanate in the 16th Century. The same happened to the so called "Tatars", Uzbeks, Kazaks, etc. with the Russian Empire, or to the Mongols with the Chinese-Manchu Empire. A mix of social, economic, historical and technological and military factors. Which, among other things, conducted to the decadence of archery.

Regards

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ganzalo, I did not say that the Egyptian Mamluks were defeated by treason, I said that the Mamluks were not defeated in Egypt by the Janassaries, the treason was Ali taking control over Egypt and proclaiming himself as the "Khedive".

Estcrh, you would enjoy reading James Waterson's book. It's a fascinating read and well worth the modest money. It has pride of place in my library. During their heyday the Mamluks were like the Samurai of the Islamic world, and second to none in their fighting skills to which their entire lives were devoted. As Gonzalo G mentioned, their weaknesses were a lack of willingness to adapt to new scientific advances and corruption as a result of power grabs.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It woz Ali Pasha wot done it !!!