ratcheting mechanism on Spanish Navajas

[Gonzalo G]

Hi Chris,

It is nice to "talk" with you again. You are right, I forgot Philip V was enthroned in 1700. My apologies.

I have some doubts about the work of Forton. The locking mechanism "de muelle" (spring loaded) is present since the early "Spanish" navajas, but dating the specific carraca mechanism to so early date gives me some of these doubts. The other, more important point about Forton: navajas were presumably known and used in this area since the Roman times. The original navaja from Albacete is attributed to the muslim culture in its stytilistic features. Albacete was founded by the muslim rulers (the city of Al-Basit), and was famous for its muslim knifemakers since that time.

The Spanish people has been systematically denying and hiding their muslim and jewish heritage since the time of the catholic kings, and moreover since the Franco's dictadorship, but for some architectural and decorative contributions. I believe Forton is no exception. Do you believe that the production of navajas was forgotten completely after the fall of the Roman Empire, and suddenly, after the creation of the Spanish state in the 16th Century, they began producing navajas? and less those navajas from Albacete which does not look "Spanish" at all, but moorish? I know, there are not historic items connecting the Spanish navajas with their ancestors from the muslim rule. But you also cannot find historic muslim cimitarras and alfanjes from that time, in spite that they are abundantly mentioned in the sources as moorish weapons. The few ones I have seen as such are in fact Renacentist Venetian stortas!

I am sorry if this comment on Forton statements became a disgression, but I think it is relevant to a certain point to contextualize the possible bias of this author.
Regards

[Chris Evans]

Gonzalo,

I have some doubts about the work of Forton.

In a post I made some time ago, i did write that his magnum opus is in need of a revison/update, but I believe that Forton is now 87yrs old, so this is unlikely happen.

With that said, I think that until something better comes along, we have to go with his views, even if we entertain some doubts, because otherwise we are left with guesses based on personal fancy.

The locking mechanism "de muelle" (spring loaded) is present since the early "Spanish" navajas, but dating the specific carraca mechanism to so early date gives me some of these doubts.

Dating navajas is problematic, but in his book he shows photos of navajas with carracas that he attributes to the 18th century. Their appearance is certainly more primitive than what became more or less normative in the 19th century. I imagine that there may be paintings or drawings from that century that depict these navajas.

The other, more important point about Forton: navajas were presumably known and used in this area since the Roman times. The original navaja from Albacete is attributed to the muslim culture in its stytilistic features. Albacete was founded by the muslim rulers (the city of Al-Basit), and was famous for its muslim knifemakers since that time.

He deals with the origins of the navaja at some length and concluded that the earliest reliably dated folding clasp knife that has been able to find goes back to 1699, but I have to point out that it is quite unlike what we would call a `navaja'.

Having stated this, he goes on to say that the navaja made its appearance in the 17th century, being mentioned by Cervantes as weapons, but these early references do not describe them with any precision, so all we know is that they were folding knives. Well, my take on this is that barber's razors go back to ancient times and also were used violently at times so....

As you rightly point out, folding knives have been around since Roman times, so the birth of the classical navaja, for lack of a better term, is a matter of arbitrary definition based on typology.

For what it is worth, my guess is that there must have been an evolutionary period commencing around 1600, made possible by metallurgical and lockwork advances of the renaissance, and which was given a major impetus by the banning of weapons in Spain, culminating in the classical navaja.

There are many who speculate on an earlier origin of the classical navaja, but the major obstacle to this is that a) there is no hard substantive evidence, and b) fixed blade knives were in all ways better as both tools and weapons, so why bother with complicated and labor intensive mechanisms?

The major problem with the study of the navaja is that it was an instrument that pertained to the illiterate plebes and was treated with disdain by the upper classes. As such its origins go undocumented and are lost in the mist of time.

Cheers
Chris

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

He deals with the origins of the navaja at some length and concluded that the earliest reliably dated folding clasp knife that has been able to find goes back to 1699, but I have to point out that it is quite unlike what we would call a `navaja'.

Having stated this, he goes on to say that the navaja made its appearance in the 17th century, being mentioned by Cervantes as weapons, but these early references do not describe them with any precision, so all we know is that they were folding knives. Well, my take on this is that barber's razors go back to ancient times and also were used violently at times so....

As you rightly point out, folding knives have been around since Roman times, so the birth of the classical navaja, for lack of a better term, is a matter of arbitrary definition based on typology.
Chris

Chris, although I agree with you in many points, I must add that I still have my doubts about the bias or limitations in Forton's work. Or José Sanchez Ferrer's statements about the origin of the production of knives and navajas in Albacete, since more recent investigations has been made on this matter. About the origins of the navajas and since you mention it, Abel Domenech´s book on this subject, shows in page 3 a drawing of a roman navaja which in general terms has the general features of a modern navaja, though probably in a more primitive form and without a locking mechanism. As I understand, the navaja does not have to have a locking mechanism to be considered a navaja, but this a matter of typology. What calls my attention, is the fact that on the documents of the 13th Century from the city of Alcaraz on the province of Albacete, there are clear mentions on the tax imposed to the commerce of navajas. And they use this specific word, "navajas", well before Cervantes. Please see the book by Aurelio Pretel Marín et al, Alcaraz: Del Islam al Consejo Castellano, published by the Instituto de Estudios Albacetenses “Don Juan Manuel”, Alcaraz, Spain, 2013 (it is for free online). On the page 325, you can see the articles taxed by this city, and the navajas are one of them. The tax apply for a dozen of them. Please see for sourself:

http://pandora.dipualba.es/high.raw?...0000005158.pdf

What does it says to you? To me, it says that the subject is not completely investigated. Maybe because those old items disapeared in time or were destroyed, maybe also because this production ended with the christian conquest, as many other valuable Moorish industries (the production of silk, rugs and weapons made of wootz, as indicated on the sources, but it is the matter for another thread). It must be added this quote about the production of edged weapons in Alcaraz:

"En el campo de la artesanía, pocos vestigios nos han quedado que puedan
arrojar luz, pero son los suficientes para hacer ver que debió desarrollarse en
Alcaraz la orfebrería, al menos a finales de siglo. En 1.401 firman juntos un
documento dos plateros de la villa: Alfonso Vel y Juan Ruíz (262). También se
dió allí una temprana tradición de los trabajos de forja y, sobre todo, de
fabricación de cuchillería y armas, en los que destacaban los mudéjares. Un
fragmento mínimo de carta que conservamos (263 ) nos habla de que los moros huidos antes de 1.382, a causa de la presión fiscal, eran "ferreros e cochilleros". Posiblemente, algunos fueran artesanos establecidos por su cuenta, pero es más probable que, en su mayor parte, estos "oficiales" trabajaran por cuenta ajena. Ello explicaría quizás el hecho de que el patriciado alcaraceño solicitase de la Reina que eximiese de tributos de aljama a estos infieles, para que pudieran volver a su labor. De todas formas, la crisis de la comunidad islámica arrastró también, al parecer, la de la cuchillería y armería local. Sabemos que, en 1.393, algunos alcaraceños compraban en Murcia sus 'fojas de armas" (264)."

Pretel Marín, Aurelio, Una ciudad castellana en los siglos XIV y XV (Alcaraz 1300-1475), Instituto de Estudios Albacetenses "Don Juan Manuel", 1978, pág.61.

In a few words, Alcaraz was a center of production of knives; those associated with this production were charateristically muslims and, this production decayed or completely dissapeared because the muslim knifemakers and blacksmiths didn't want to live anymore in this city (or in Spain, basically due the extreme religious intolerance). This also explains why the production of navajas was an item already contemplated in the taxation system already mentioned from the 13th Century.

Now, what kid of navajas were produced? I don't believe they were barber razors. Muslims and christian alike were not adept to shave, as the Romans and Greeks. This is why I believe that the history of the navaja in Spain is incomplete and that the participation of the musim population in this history has been deliberately ignored by past researchers. And that the stylistic features of many traditional Spanish navaja are in fact muslim. There is more information on the subject, demostrating that in the city of Albacete there were muslim knifemakers even in the 15th Century.

REgards

[Chris Evans]

Gonzalo,

On Forton:

You make valid points and I too have picked up on some things in Forton's books that left me scratching my head. But then, I can pretty much say the same about most books that deal with similar subjects.

Writing about old knives is not of mainstream academic interest, and the task usually befalls upon enthuisasts with limited resources who work for the sheer love of it, for there is no financial reward in such research.

I should add that Forton is a Spaniard, who is university educated and as of recent, had a collection of some 500 pieces, considered by many as the best in the world. And this collection has been acquired by the Albacete cutlery museum, so he was much better positioned than most who did, or would venture to study this subject.

So all in all, with whatever perceived faults his works may have, Forton is the best we have until someone comes along and writes something better. However I do not think that this is likely to happen because he gathered all the readily accessible data and it will be very difficult to improve on this, other than write additional footnotes or make minor corrections. And I should add that all the other serious writers on this subject use his works as the point of departure. Of course, what should have happened years ago was a revision of this book, but so far nothing has come to pass.


On the subject of pre 18th century navajas: As I said in an earlier post, the hard evidence is missing and this pushes us into speculation territory.

There was a thread here some five years ago re a paper discussing navajas found in a 17th century galleon. Unfortunately, the author of the paper did not produce any evidence of what we call these days a navaja. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15626 and http://www.melfisher.org/pdf/Navajas...2_Galleons.pdf

Be that all as it may, I did say in my post #32 of this thread that since folding knives have been around since antiquity, what we consider a `navaja' is a matter of arbitrarily identifying it with a certain typology. So, as things stand at present, if what we call a navaja is a folding knife with a more or less large blade, say 5” plus, which can be locked into the open position, then we cannot regress any further back than the 18th century. With all this said, if we include friction folders, then we can probably go back to Roman times.

Cheers
Chris

[Gonzalo G]

Well said, Chris. And with all their limitations, I am very grateful to those men who in their free time have written on and shared their love for those items. Without them, we would be in much greater darkness.
Abrazo
G