Koummiya for comments

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The shape of the pommel is of course typically termed 'peacock tail', and while often characteristic of koummya, however there are examples without it. I recall once being told the form may have derived from the Italian cinquedea, however the crescent type pommels were known in Islamic hilts as early as 16th century, and in Middle East earlier.

Hi Jim,

I think that you refer to this kind of Italian dagger and you are right these kind of pommels exist in Luristan and other middle eastern bronze age swords.
So it's basically impossible to say if it was an European influence or not...

Habibi Ibraheem, I'm sorry, it's true I love the red pen, my favourite weapon... I just wanted to point out the points to look at when buying a koummiya...

[motan]

Thank you all for your responses, Ibrahiim, Kubur, estcrh sajen and Jim who really seems to be the scholar among us.
Kubur, thanks for your comments and because you seems to know the most about koummyas, I will go with your opinion - late 19th c +/- few decades.

I agree that the wear in the loops of rings are attest that the dagger has been carried for several years and it is a good sign of an authentic piece. It is hard with koummyas as hundreds thousands of tourist pieces were and are made starting quite early too (1920's??). Many are exact copies of original types and you can tell they are for "export" only by small details. Others are pure fantasy, with stones, bone and shapes not found in original types. To make things even more complicated, some are old, but primitive- what some people call "village type", so that even the quality of the blade is not always a good guide. Anyway, I bought it because it was an opportuntiy (cheap), but I like it and will keep it, at least for a while.
It is nice to have a well-crafted piece for once. My main area of interest are original ethnographic daggers from the Levant, but the majority of those have a "home-made" quality about them and are not a feast for the eye (see picture: South Syrian Bedouin dagger). The fact that the Levant, except for Damascus, has been quite poor in the 18th and 19th century may be the reason for the lack of serious dagger-making traditions.
Estcrh, I understand what you say. Koummyas are a bit too much bling for my taste too, but we know each other's views on the fighting value of daggers in general. I am in it first for the ethnographic value, and second for the esthetic value. Whenever I think of the fighting with (even large) daggers, I have to think about that famous scene in Indiana Jones..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Jim,

I think that you refer to this kind of Italian dagger and you are right these kind of pommels exist in Luristan and other middle eastern bronze age swords.
So it's basically impossible to say if it was an European influence or not...

Habibi Ibraheem, I'm sorry, it's true I love the red pen, my favourite weapon... I just wanted to point out the points to look at when buying a koummiya...

Salaams Kubur~ Stunning detail of the Italian dagger with a clear indication of style of pommel similar to the Policemans hat type Chapeau de Gendarme of Khoummya of Morocco. (see below.) It appears that the designation peacocks tail refers to the more full range of Khoummya pommels although I have no idea what the typography is with dates of style... I need to go to Morocco for a few years to find out..!!

Colin Henshaw you seem to be using the same estimate/ guesstimate that I use based upon patina / wear... I think that is quite acceptable but wish their was some publication that sets down the precise changes over a timescale of the last few centuries and the slight design changes encountered ...I could certainly live with about 80 years on the age of this item...

Below:
1. The Dagger style Chapeau de Gendarme.
2. The actual hat from which the term was taken.
3. How the weapon was worn.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.