Pattern Welded Straight Kris

Robert · 18th June 2017, 01:18 AM

Now this is one very beautiful kris and a wonderful addition to your collection. I agree with Ian on age and that the hilt and scabbard look to be more than likely later replacements. I cannot tell from the photos and would like to know if those are actually nails or wooden dowels holding the two halves of the scabbard together? I don't believe the downward slope to the blade is unusual as I have seen quite a few other kris with this same feature. I keep picturing this mounted with a hilt more in line with the craftsmanship shown in the blade, maybe something with a bit of silver and an ivory pommel.

Lee · 18th June 2017, 02:17 AM

Thank you Gentlemen...

Yes, I see the elephant - now that you mention it - and it is not even demanding too much imagination!

I think that you are correct about there being a slight deliberate curve. The photographs exaggerate this a bit as there is very slight 'fisheye'.

Those are wooden dowels holding the two halves of the scabbard together.

Rick · 18th June 2017, 03:45 AM

The question that arises for me when looking at this kris (I'm pretty sure it has been rehilted) is are we seeing a pamor feature that is talismanic in nature, much like Javanese patterns?

I'm probably late to the party here, but it is new to my experience.

kai · 18th June 2017, 08:42 AM

Hello Lee,

Congrats, that's certainly an exceptional piece!

I'm with Rick & Co. on both counts:

The slight forward curve of the blade is intentional and not rarely seen with "straight" kris.

And the swirl at the base of the blade is an additional pamor motif (kul buntet in Jawanese) - something I haven't seen before with any Moro kris! Could you please add a larger close-up of both sides of the base of blade?

A top view on the gangya would be great, too!

Regards,
Kai

Lee · 18th June 2017, 05:14 PM

Rick, considering their geographic and cultural proximity, I would surmise that the associated meanings of such markings from the realm of the keris world must have carried on at least to some extent in the mindsets and work of Moro smiths.

Perhaps entirely unassociated except by the nature of the medium of forged iron, iron blade inlays are also frequently observed in European Migration Period and Viking Age swords (even the sword in the logo at top of this page has one!) and such inlays do include swirls. I have just finished reading a most engaging doctoral thesis on iron inlays in late Iron Age Finland - Marks of Fire, Value and Faith Swords with Ferrous Inlays in Finland during the Late Iron Age (ca. 700–1200 AD) by M Moilanen (2016) that seriously ponders the significance of such inlays (and the author and his university have generously provided a pdf of the entire book!) Some of these marks may well have had talismanic significance to the maker or user while others may have been a maker's mark or 'signature' or they may have been applied as an otherwise anonymous testament to the technical proficiency of the smith. Also, it is noted that peoples everywhere from the beginning have liked to decorate their tools and other possessions.

I am going to resurrect an old thread of Lew's to show another similarly very subtly curved 'straight' kris that features iron inlays.

Kai, I have noted your interest in a top view of the gangya and added it to the photo queue. Meanwhile, here are the requested close-ups of the base of this blade:

Rick · 18th June 2017, 05:50 PM

If this represents batu lapak then according to Tammens book DE KRIS it is a royal pamor.

Tammens notes that kul buntet is essentially the same, but it's character may be stronger.

I'm not sure how relevant Tammens work is anymore.

I, personally, have seen no evidence that pamor interpretations were carried over to the Moro peoples.

It might make a bit more sense if it was a Malay kris.

Ian · 18th June 2017, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

If this represents batu lapak then according to Tammens book DE KRIS it is a royal pamor.

Tammens notes that kul buntet is essentially different, but it's character may be stronger.

I have seen no evidence before this to suggest that pamor interpretations were carried over to the Moro peoples.

It might make a bit more sense if it was a Malay kris.

Hi Rick,

Do you think this is a Malay kris? Can you amplify?

The hilt looks typical Maranao work, especially with the crenalated metal ring just below the pommel, while the "elephant trunk area" does not look like Malay examples I have seen previously.

The link to a royal pamor is an intriguing observation given the high level of craftsmanship for the forging that went into this blade.

Ian.

Ian · 18th June 2017, 05:50 PM

Lee,

Thanks for the cross-cultural reference and historical perspective on pattern welded and laminated blades. Interesting comparisons indeed.

Ian.

18th June 2017, 02:17 AM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 967	Thank you Gentlemen... Thank you Gentlemen... Yes, I see the elephant - now that you mention it - and it is not even demanding too much imagination! I think that you are correct about there being a slight deliberate curve. The photographs exaggerate this a bit as there is very slight 'fisheye'. Those are wooden dowels holding the two halves of the scabbard together.

18th June 2017, 03:45 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	The question that arises for me when looking at this kris (I'm pretty sure it has been rehilted) is are we seeing a pamor feature that is talismanic in nature, much like Javanese patterns? I'm probably late to the party here, but it is new to my experience. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 18th June 2017 at 04:04 AM.

18th June 2017, 05:14 PM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 967	Rick, considering their geographic and cultural proximity, I would surmise that the associated meanings of such markings from the realm of the keris world must have carried on at least to some extent in the mindsets and work of Moro smiths. Perhaps entirely unassociated except by the nature of the medium of forged iron, iron blade inlays are also frequently observed in European Migration Period and Viking Age swords (even the sword in the logo at top of this page has one!) and such inlays do include swirls. I have just finished reading a most engaging doctoral thesis on iron inlays in late Iron Age Finland - Marks of Fire, Value and Faith Swords with Ferrous Inlays in Finland during the Late Iron Age (ca. 700–1200 AD) by M Moilanen (2016) that seriously ponders the significance of such inlays (and the author and his university have generously provided a pdf of the entire book!) Some of these marks may well have had talismanic significance to the maker or user while others may have been a maker's mark or 'signature' or they may have been applied as an otherwise anonymous testament to the technical proficiency of the smith. Also, it is noted that peoples everywhere from the beginning have liked to decorate their tools and other possessions. I am going to resurrect an old thread of Lew's to show another similarly very subtly curved 'straight' kris that features iron inlays. Kai, I have noted your interest in a top view of the gangya and added it to the photo queue. Meanwhile, here are the requested close-ups of the base of this blade: Attached Images

18th June 2017, 05:50 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Kul Buntet If this represents batu lapak then according to Tammens book DE KRIS it is a royal pamor. Tammens notes that kul buntet is essentially the same, but it's character may be stronger. I'm not sure how relevant Tammens work is anymore. I, personally, have seen no evidence that pamor interpretations were carried over to the Moro peoples. It might make a bit more sense if it was a Malay kris.

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18th June 2017, 01:18 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Now this is one very beautiful kris and a wonderful addition to your collection. I agree with Ian on age and that the hilt and scabbard look to be more than likely later replacements. I cannot tell from the photos and would like to know if those are actually nails or wooden dowels holding the two halves of the scabbard together? I don't believe the downward slope to the blade is unusual as I have seen quite a few other kris with this same feature. I keep picturing this mounted with a hilt more in line with the craftsmanship shown in the blade, maybe something with a bit of silver and an ivory pommel.

18th June 2017, 08:42 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Lee, Congrats, that's certainly an exceptional piece! I'm with Rick & Co. on both counts: The slight forward curve of the blade is intentional and not rarely seen with "straight" kris. And the swirl at the base of the blade is an additional pamor motif (kul buntet in Jawanese) - something I haven't seen before with any Moro kris! Could you please add a larger close-up of both sides of the base of blade? A top view on the gangya would be great, too! Regards, Kai

18th June 2017, 05:50 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,513	Lee, Thanks for the cross-cultural reference and historical perspective on pattern welded and laminated blades. Interesting comparisons indeed. Ian.