South African Navaja for comment

fernando · 8th March 2006, 08:21 PM

Olá Chris
Have you the Forton book translated, or can you comprehend Spanish writing ? In the satistical part about imports, he reminds that three quarters of those millions of navajas brought in, were indeed French. He also admits that by mid end 19th century, several countries had their cuttlers making navajas, but visibly giving a Spanish approach to their shape.
In another part of the book he considers that, before this period and, as far these devices evoluted from razors in the 16-17th century, the specific Navaja, with all its contents and meanning ( as to differentiate it from the common utensile pocket knife ... ) is original and tipically Spanish.
More or less that, right ?

Chris Evans · 9th March 2006, 12:48 AM

Hi Fernando,

I read Spanish pretty well and have read all of Forton's works. I am a collector of navajas and made a study of them, as well as that of the South American Facon (their usage is inter-related). You can do a search for my earlier posts on these subjects.

Yes, the Spaniards claim that they invented the concept of the "navaja" and that due to the weapon bans their cutlers went to other parts of Europe taking their invention with them, and these eventually found their way back to Spain by way of imports. Personally, I find this a little hard to believe, though do not rule it out entirely, because the basic concept was so simple that with the then extant advances in locks any European nation could make them withe ease.

I suppose what we really have to do is is to establish whether the Spaniards introduced weapon bans first in Europe or if other nations introduced them before or around the same time. My reason for taking this approach is that as long as fixed bladed knives, not to mention swords, were permitted, then the reason for making an inferior (in every respect) folding knife would not have been there. In this respect I am totally in agreement with Forton who makes the same assertion that the navaja could only make its stage debut after the weapon bans.

Cheers
Chris

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8th March 2006, 08:21 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Olá Chris Have you the Forton book translated, or can you comprehend Spanish writing ? In the satistical part about imports, he reminds that three quarters of those millions of navajas brought in, were indeed French. He also admits that by mid end 19th century, several countries had their cuttlers making navajas, but visibly giving a Spanish approach to their shape. In another part of the book he considers that, before this period and, as far these devices evoluted from razors in the 16-17th century, the specific Navaja, with all its contents and meanning ( as to differentiate it from the common utensile pocket knife ... ) is original and tipically Spanish. More or less that, right ?

9th March 2006, 12:48 AM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Fernando, I read Spanish pretty well and have read all of Forton's works. I am a collector of navajas and made a study of them, as well as that of the South American Facon (their usage is inter-related). You can do a search for my earlier posts on these subjects. Yes, the Spaniards claim that they invented the concept of the "navaja" and that due to the weapon bans their cutlers went to other parts of Europe taking their invention with them, and these eventually found their way back to Spain by way of imports. Personally, I find this a little hard to believe, though do not rule it out entirely, because the basic concept was so simple that with the then extant advances in locks any European nation could make them withe ease. I suppose what we really have to do is is to establish whether the Spaniards introduced weapon bans first in Europe or if other nations introduced them before or around the same time. My reason for taking this approach is that as long as fixed bladed knives, not to mention swords, were permitted, then the reason for making an inferior (in every respect) folding knife would not have been there. In this respect I am totally in agreement with Forton who makes the same assertion that the navaja could only make its stage debut after the weapon bans. Cheers Chris