Food For Thought

Mark · 7th March 2006, 11:59 PM

And .... we will end the little digression into theology RIGHT THERE, please. In the words of Bartok the bat, "It will only end in tears."

I'm not as subtle as Rick.

BSMStar · 8th March 2006, 12:42 AM

It has been my experience in collecting that:

1. I start collecting…
2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor.
3. More become available, but the prices start to go up.
4. Reproductions find their way into the market place.
5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff.
6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals.
7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices.

I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you.

not2sharp · 8th March 2006, 01:47 AM

If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors.

This is an example of what we should try to pull together.

http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm

Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor.

n2s

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 04:30 AM

Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife!

), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them

).

not2sharp · 8th March 2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby?

For one thing; there are probably dozens of examples of whatever you collect which were just ground down today to make a nice set of tent pegs for someone. The more we inform the more people come to appreciate the historical artifacts around them. Even if they don't persoanlly collect they would know enough to salvage and value some of these relics of the past.

For another; from shared experience comes shared learning. There is much we wish that we knew which will never come to light unless we have the ability to study a great many examples. While a virtual museum is not like having the items at hand; we can learn quite a bit to help us better date and catagorize these items. If we have a dozen sword which are similar enough to deduce that they were likely made by the same hands, and one turns up with a pedegree, then the whole lot benefits from that shared piece of infomation.

(btw - virtual museums will probably never ask you to add those little white numbers

)

n2s

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 02:07 PM

n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs".

Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife (

) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here

). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block.

I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

BluErf · 8th March 2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

We have a rudimentary virtual keris museum already!!

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

And there are a few sites out there dedicated to Javanese kerises.

What happens to our physical collection depends on what we do -- we can leave it to rust, stowed away in the basement, forgotten. Or we could leave it to the 'mercy' of our children. Or we could donate them to the museum. Or we could find good 'homes' for them before we get too old.

A point I've always wanted to make is -- don't donate collections to the museum. What goes in seldom comes out (not the decent ones anyway), and no matter how well they are conserved, they are still confined to a 'storeroom' most of the time. I believe that there should good pieces out there, for the responsible and knowledgeable collectors to enjoy and care for.

VANDOO · 8th March 2006, 04:05 PM

I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00

THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION

THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER.

7th March 2006, 11:59 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Ahem And .... we will end the little digression into theology RIGHT THERE, please. In the words of Bartok the bat, "It will only end in tears." I'm not as subtle as Rick.

8th March 2006, 12:42 AM	#2
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	My Experience... It has been my experience in collecting that: 1. I start collecting… 2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor. 3. More become available, but the prices start to go up. 4. Reproductions find their way into the market place. 5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff. 6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals. 7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices. I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you. Last edited by BSMStar; 8th March 2006 at 01:19 AM.

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8th March 2006, 01:47 AM	#3
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors. This is an example of what we should try to pull together. http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor. n2s

8th March 2006, 04:30 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife! ), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them ).

8th March 2006, 02:07 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs". Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife ( ) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here ). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block. I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

8th March 2006, 04:05 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00 THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER.