Unknown Sword or machete

Jim McDougall · 12th March 2017, 05:27 PM

Pretty sure this is one of the rarest cases of a British M1796 Heavy cavalry blade being remounted........with habaki!!! very very unusual!

mariusgmioc · 13th March 2017, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Pretty sure this is one of the rarest cases of a British M1796 Heavy cavalry blade being remounted........with habaki!!! very very unusual!

Hello Jim,

Wasn't the M1796 a sabre... thus with a curved blade?

kronckew · 13th March 2017, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Jim,

Wasn't the M1796 a sabre... thus with a curved blade?

the 1796 LC sabre was curved with a hatchet point and simple stirrup guard

the 1796 HC 'sabre' (or sword) was straight with a hatchet point and a flat perforated discoid guard...many were modified before waterloo to 'spear point' the blades. removed from service in 1861.

i think the differences between the terms 'sabre' an d 'sword' were a bit blurry. troopers carried sabres, officers carried swords, even if both looked exactly alike (except for possible decoration on the officer's). the 1796 HC officer's private purchase swords were frequently decorated with scrollwork. the troopers issued ones were not. collectors tend to lock in terms that may or may not have been the same during the active service life of our weapons. makes for interesting arguments here on the forum

Jim McDougall · 14th March 2017, 02:21 AM

Spot on Wayne!!
The 1796 patterns (first 'official' British cavalry pattern) were for light and heavy, as were the next in 1821 (actually 1829).....in 1853 the sword was for both light and heavy. The 1796 'honeysuckle' hilt for heavy cavalry officers was an amazing hilt, and had the same blade as the troopers.

The term sabre was often used broadly for both straight and curved blades for cavalry in the 18th century, the same as broadsword was used for both double edged and single edged (backsword).

These heavy straight blades like the 1796 were usually called 'pallasche' on the Continent.

They think the 'name game' is restricted to ethnographic forms only? NOT.
These variances have present the opportunity for many , uh, 'discussions/debates' around here through the years.

Absolutely right on the modification to spear point on these 'heavies' just prior to Waterloo was reflective of the constant debate over cut vs. thrust for cavalry. These heavy cavalry swords were not popular with the cavalry as they were heavy, awkward chopping swords, but were devastating in the immortal charge of the "Scots Grey's" that day .

I collected British cavalry swords back 'in the day' (late 60s) and still remember a lot of this stuff.

mariusgmioc · 14th March 2017, 10:21 AM

Thank you guys for the info on the 1796 model!

kronckew · 14th March 2017, 02:55 PM

there happened to be a 1796 HC sabre on auction yesterday, in excellent condition listed at 80-100 as a 'sharpe sword'. i bid for it online hoping no one else knew what it was, i dropped out early tho and it went for close to a grand. been watching it online for about a week, biuting my tongue while i posted here in this thread.

just for interest, now that the auction is over, richard sharpe, as most of you may know already, is a fictional napoleonic rifle officer set in wellington's army. he carries a 1796 HC sword, hence the 'sharpe sword' in the terse auction description. too many collector sharks swimming out there tho.

the other officers frequently refer to it as a ''butcher's blade'' unsuitable for a gentleman (sharpe was an infantry sergeant raised to lieutenant, made colonel by the time of waterloo, a 'maverick' from the ranks and considered by many other commissioned officers - who had 'purchased' their commissions - as not a proper officer.). episodes are available on dvd or youtube, well worth watching the series which covers the penninsular war, india, and waterloo. they tend to be quite accurate with uniforms and equipment, weapons from both sides.

Jim McDougall · 14th March 2017, 08:06 PM

Thanks for the detail on the 'Sharpe' series, which were pretty great military lore! and the use of this M1796 Heavy by a rifles company officer always attracted a lot of collector furor back in those great old days. Back then you could get one of these for about 100-200 bucks, the light cavs went more, usually about 250. I saw these for as little as 75-100 bucks (late 60s early 70s).
I forget the story of how Sharpe got the sword, but as he was on campaign in the Peninsula prior to Waterloo, it seems it was some sort of field arrangement.

14th March 2017, 02:55 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	there happened to be a 1796 HC sabre on auction yesterday, in excellent condition listed at 80-100 as a 'sharpe sword'. i bid for it online hoping no one else knew what it was, i dropped out early tho and it went for close to a grand. been watching it online for about a week, biuting my tongue while i posted here in this thread. just for interest, now that the auction is over, richard sharpe, as most of you may know already, is a fictional napoleonic rifle officer set in wellington's army. he carries a 1796 HC sword, hence the 'sharpe sword' in the terse auction description. too many collector sharks swimming out there tho. the other officers frequently refer to it as a ''butcher's blade'' unsuitable for a gentleman (sharpe was an infantry sergeant raised to lieutenant, made colonel by the time of waterloo, a 'maverick' from the ranks and considered by many other commissioned officers - who had 'purchased' their commissions - as not a proper officer.). episodes are available on dvd or youtube, well worth watching the series which covers the penninsular war, india, and waterloo. they tend to be quite accurate with uniforms and equipment, weapons from both sides. Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12th March 2017, 05:27 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Pretty sure this is one of the rarest cases of a British M1796 Heavy cavalry blade being remounted........with habaki!!! very very unusual!

14th March 2017, 02:21 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Spot on Wayne!! The 1796 patterns (first 'official' British cavalry pattern) were for light and heavy, as were the next in 1821 (actually 1829).....in 1853 the sword was for both light and heavy. The 1796 'honeysuckle' hilt for heavy cavalry officers was an amazing hilt, and had the same blade as the troopers. The term sabre was often used broadly for both straight and curved blades for cavalry in the 18th century, the same as broadsword was used for both double edged and single edged (backsword). These heavy straight blades like the 1796 were usually called 'pallasche' on the Continent. They think the 'name game' is restricted to ethnographic forms only? NOT. These variances have present the opportunity for many , uh, 'discussions/debates' around here through the years. Absolutely right on the modification to spear point on these 'heavies' just prior to Waterloo was reflective of the constant debate over cut vs. thrust for cavalry. These heavy cavalry swords were not popular with the cavalry as they were heavy, awkward chopping swords, but were devastating in the immortal charge of the "Scots Grey's" that day . I collected British cavalry swords back 'in the day' (late 60s) and still remember a lot of this stuff.

14th March 2017, 10:21 AM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Thank you guys for the info on the 1796 model!

14th March 2017, 08:06 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Thanks for the detail on the 'Sharpe' series, which were pretty great military lore! and the use of this M1796 Heavy by a rifles company officer always attracted a lot of collector furor back in those great old days. Back then you could get one of these for about 100-200 bucks, the light cavs went more, usually about 250. I saw these for as little as 75-100 bucks (late 60s early 70s). I forget the story of how Sharpe got the sword, but as he was on campaign in the Peninsula prior to Waterloo, it seems it was some sort of field arrangement.