Basket hilted swords

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Another pattern 1828 Scottish Basket

Date: Pattern 1828 (19th Century)
Overall Length: In Scabbard 104 cm, (40.9 inches) Sword only 99cm (39 inches)
Blade length: 82.7 cm (34.3 inches)
Blade widest point: 2.9 cm (1.1 inches
Hilt widest point: 14.9 cm (5.9 inches)
Inside grip length: 11.6 cm (4.6 inches)

Maker is S MAYNARD & HARRIS LEEADENHALL ST LONDON, Army and Navy Agents which are listed as Maynard and Harris 1851-1862

Description
Basket Hilt-Scottish-Pattern 1828-Highland Officer-Black Watch
Victorian officers regimental broadsword attributed to Harry Richard Stanhope Foley, as the ricasso has been engraved H.R.S.F over the original makers details, the blade is etched on one side with a crowned VR cipher and a Prince of Wales feather with By Appointment and on the other with the battle honours of the 42nd to Sevastopol, the hilt with a regulation steel basket retaining the original red faced leather liner, and with the field service scabbard, this has wear to the top leather.

Harry Richard Stanhope Foley
4/6/1864 joined the 42nd (the Royal Highland) Regt of Foot (the Black Watch).
14/6/1864 Appointed Ensign
9/11/1866 Appointed Lieutenant
9/11/1866 THE LONDON GAZETTE, NOVEMBER 9, 1866. 42nd Foot, Ensign Harry Richard Stanhope Foley to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice John Allatt Drake, who retires. Dated 9th November, 1866.
17/3/1869 Retired from the Black Watch.
2/4/1869 Joined the West Kent Light Infantry as Captain.

Not a terribly interesting chap, but a nice sword and we have recently acquired a photo of him, although sadly not in Uniform.

Cheer Cathey and Rex

[fernando]

Very nice sword, Cathey,
Its owner might not be an interesting chap but, the 42nd Black Watch certainly was.
They played an important role in the Peninsular War, as etched in your sword blade. Eventually one of the battles in which they were part of the allied forces (Buçaco) is a place hardly 100 miles from my home town.

[Jim McDougall]

The 42nd Highland Regt of Foot ("Black Watch") is definitely a most distinguished and well known unit of the famed 'Highlanders' of the British military.
There is considerable debate about the origin of the name of this regiment, typically presuming it had to do with the dark tartan they are said to have worn. Actually it derives from a colloquial expression from the time the ancestral unit was formed, in the turbulent climate of the Scottish Highlands post '15' (the Scottish rebellion of 1715).
In 1725, George II authorized units of Highlanders from various clans loyal to the crown to patrol ("watch") areas of the Highlands for potential troubles and further organizing of insurgence.

These units were termed 'Am Freiceadan Dubh', (= the dark, or 'black' watch) much as in modern terms we refer to covert activity in the intelligence communities as 'black ops'.
The well known knife traditionally hidden in the sock of kilted clansmen is the skean dubh ( = hidden, dark, or 'black' knife, dubh meaning dark or black).

In 1740, more units were added and formed into an official military infantry regiment which became the famed 42nd .

This regiment, which fought with distinction and valor through many campaigns, including as Fernando noted at Bucaco in 1810 during the Peninsular campaigns, is also well known from one of the most famed paintings of the Napoleonic Wars.
Lady Butler painted her rendition of the immortal charge of the Royal Scots Greys cavalry at Waterloo, titled 'Scotland Forever'.

In this fabulous painting, she portrays the spirited charging of these horsemen in this charge in which Highlanders (the 42nd) were said to have tried to go into the breach with them by grabbing their stirrups. This was more of course an elaborate exaggeration, but in fact the cavalry did break through the ranks of the Highlanders in moving toward the French, but the Highlanders cheered them through, and in that spirit, Lady Butler simply portrayed them very much wanting to 'go with them'.

I recall in 1983, I went to a performance of the Black Watch bagpipe band . It was exciting and fabulous, and there are no words to describe the emotion as they dedicated their music and a standing crowd to the Marines who died in the barracks bombing in Lebanon the week before.

From the early days of these Highlander regiments, the bagpipes always accompanied them, and before battle, the pipes stirred the troops, much as what I witnessed that day in 1983.

[kronckew]

bit more contemporary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2gDkcpYnMc

a slightly better version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8LPu8Jzjxg

we even have our own tartan

(i'm prejudiced. they are somewhat better fed - and a tad older )

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Not all basket hilts are actually Scottish, but how can you tell if its a Scottish Basket Hilt or a British Basket Hilt. Even the Baron of Earlshall in Volume 1 of his new book is cautious about a definitive answer as such and whilst his book is titled "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" it contains just as many British Basket hilts. Just to add to our confusion it may be British in manufacture but used by a Scottish Regiment and of course the Scott's where not renowned for blade making so a British manufactured blade on a Scottish Basket is not unusual either.

Whilst their will always be anomalies, two principle indicators are worth considering. 1st the pommel shape, many British military swords have what "Mazansky" refers to as a bun pommel. Scottish swords, more often than not have a more conical shaped pommel often with incised decoration. The second indicator can be found on the underside of the guard. In most British basket hilts the tang fits neatly into the sword slot, whilst in Scottish examples there is often a longer recess that may even be wider than the actual blade, thus comfortably seating the blade as such.

I have probably explained this rather badly so I have attached some pictures that I hope will better convey what to look for. The Baron does say in his book that whilst some Scottish swords do not have this extended sword recess, he has never seen the feature on a British example. So whilst we still can't be sure a basket is Scottish, if it has the extended recess under the guard we can be reasonably confident that it isn't British.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cerjak]

Dear Cathey and Rex
Really useful information many thanks .
Best
Cerjak

[NeilUK]

I'll second Cerjak's comment. I had not appreciated that point about the blade/tang slot in the base of the basket. Thank you.
Neil