PBX

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you very much for your most recent post Kulino.

Please permit me to assure you that you have not "trespassed" at all, rather, you have said more in this post # 37 than you have said in all your previous posts, and I most sincerely thank you for this.

Now I believe understand your orientation and understanding of the keris, and that is a giant leap forward for me.

I know the original Ronggowarsito work, but do not have a copy, I have not seen the Hartokretarto transliteration into roman text.

My understanding of the Ronggowarsito work is that it takes the theosophical approach that grew in popularity amongst the Javanese elites as colonial domination became more oppressive. This understanding has been gained second hand from discussion with a relative who had intense interest in Javanese theosophy. As with virtually all writings by Karaton pujanggas, the content of this work was not drawn from thin air, nor from imagination, it came from earlier sources that were then re-interpreted by R.Ng. Ronggowarsito. My understanding is that the major source was an earlier manuscript from a Pajang pujangga. I do not recall all the details, and as I said, this is second hand knowledge and as such, could be flawed. It is something I have never pursued.

R. Ng. Hartokretarto was involved in the production of a pre-WWII magazine that was printed in Solo between about 1920 and 1940, I believe that WWII put an end to it. This magazine was called "Kumandhang Theosofie" ( An Echo of Theosophy), I have seen photocopies of this magazine, I think perhaps the originals of these photocopies might be in the Mangkunegaraan Library in Solo.

The Solo elites were of course loyal to the Dutch, this attitude was still very much alive in the 1960's and 1970's, but it has faded into history in recent years. I know one lady who was born in the late 1930's who was educated in a Catholic school that was very much Dutch-Catholic, and whose way of thinking, even now, is very much Dutch orientated. She collects all types of porcelain that have pictures of windmills. Not interested in anything else, only windmills. If they were real windmills, her house would fly away.

But is this acceptance of Dutch values a rebellious attitude?
Well, that probably depends upon the way in which a person thinks.
Children rebel against authority.
Adults accept the authority and work around it, or with it.
There is a Javanese saying that translates as:-
"Do not try to lift more than you can carry"
A core value of the Javanese persona is "nrima" : to accept without protest or to resign oneself to something; the concept being that all is pre-ordained and to attempt to change that which God has arranged is not only arrogant, but also stupid, and a price will have to be paid. The world turns.
The elites of Solo are probably more Javanese than anybody else in the Land of Jawa.

Kulino, you have voiced the opinion that the cult of the keris was not in existence during the time you were receiving instruction from your teacher.

I would take a slightly different perspective in relation to that matter:-

in Jawa Tengah, the "cult of the keris" has never been dead, it has always been a part of the core values of Javanese culture, however, it is only since perhaps the mid -1970's that we have seen an increase in interest in the keris, and only since the monetary crisis of the late 1990's that a popular interest has developed. There are a number of reasons for that popular interest, and I would prefer not to comment further on this.

I love this passage in your post:-

" At risk of sounding patronising, general public should not be give open access to all information. If people really want to know, answers will be given. Only when questions are asked. Not the full extent of all possible information because this needs to filled with understanding, maybe even in a different cultural context."

I could well have written this myself. It is exactly, precisely the way in which Javanese knowledge is transmitted, and sometimes, very, very rarely, the way in which the questions are answered is not from any earthly source.

The real reason for restricting knowledge is to protect the person who does not have the foundation understanding to permit him to use the knowledge in an appropriate way. Without that foundation understanding the new knowledge itself cannot be understood, thus it just becomes so many words that lack meaning. But this also must be considered:- only those who are able to use the knowledge appropriately will be able to understand that knowledge:- for the uninitiated it is only words, for the initiated it becomes knowledge.

Kulino, your comments regarding the understanding of pamor motifs reflect your approach to keris study, and I now understand that the way you have approached this is through a Javanese belief system that owes much to the influence of Sufic mysticism on Javanese culture, which began in the mid-1500's, and probably reached its peak in late colonial times.

Some of this belief has become popular belief and as such is more or less common knowledge, some of this belief can be considered as restricted knowledge.

After review of what you have written since the beginning of this thread, I have formed my own opinion that your Solo teacher held an attitude that the time in history had come for some things that were a part of his culture to be passed into the bank of world knowledge to ensure that those things were not lost forever.

On the other hand, your Jogja friend seems to have the attitude that when the purpose for any knowledge no longer exists, it quite acceptable for that knowledge to disappear.

I make no comment either for or against these two opposing opinions.

I leave it to you to form your own opinion of the way in which you should act. This way will be shown to you by the peace of your inner feelings (kabatinan).

[Kulino]

Dear Alan,
Thank you.
In respect of my Solo teacher’s rebel character, I have to say this went beyond just a feeling. After surviving the Japanese camps he was active as an intelligence officer.

My position in sharing knowledge has only partly to do with the road to understanding. We agree, this takes lots of time and effort. I even took up Solonese dancing for 13 years, six hours a week, not to perform but to understand. Although I knew that a well-trained late starter cannot exceed the level of a 15 year old Javanese dancer, I have to say I fully enjoyed dancing Menak Jinggo among others and ultimately Kelana Topeng. Performing was not my cup of tea but it came with the turf. To understand one has to immerse one self, not just skim the surface. But even then as I know of my dancing skills, as a non native one can only go to a certain dept. Sad to say that this dept is deeper then most Javanese get nowadays.

My hesitance also has to do with the abuse of knowledge. I have seen people use this knowledge to exercise power over feeble minded people. I have seen people charging a lot of money for bogus information. I do not want the things I hold close to my heart, to be part of that. It should not be a commercial instrument at least not by my doing. This is why I keep myself far from trading or collecting. Keris travel by themselves. By trading you will not acquire a higher standard.

As to your non earthly sources: I was brought to my Yogya teacher by a good Javanese friend of mine, also his cousin. At first he seemed to be reserved, but when I met him later that evening after his meditations he told me that the Elders had ordered him to answer all my questions. And boy, I had some questions. During our many discussions, many of the things my Solonese teacher told me, started to make a deeper sense. In itself is was weird to have discussions at all for Adat reasons, but more than once he expressed his great appreciation for me questioning items and the fact that we actually discussed matters. I think I ‘grew up’ in the middle, maybe the same as you. Is was, according to both my teachers, already predicted by Sunan Kalijogo. ’ White buffalos crossing the water as guardians of knowledge.’ I haven’t read the Joyoboyo but the fact that both mentioned it is nice.
Tak dir.

Let's assume for arguments sake, Kodrat stands for nature and Irogdat would stand voor culture.
Pamors appearing in nature, can also be found in culture. Patterns in stone (Aki) could appear in keris. In your opinion, what is their connection?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Kulino, I can understand how you have attempted to come closer to a Javanese mindset.

A house can have many windows, and the view through each window is different, but sometimes those different views can overlap.

In the order of creation there is one common essence that passes through and is possessed by everything, but the various things in creation possess that essence in varying quantities:- a man will possess more than a horse, a horse will possess more than tree, a tree will possess more than a rock. Creation and the Creator are inseparable and exist as unity. The repetition of a natural pattern is no more and no less than the expression of a concept by the creator.

Man in his physical form is not able to understand that which is beyond his experience, but he can copy and does copy these concepts, even though he does not understand them. In his arrogance he invents his own interpretations.

Nothing made by man can dominate that which has been made by the Creator, and all in existence is an expression of the Creator's will. This concept can be understood in two different and opposing ways, and both are true. Javanese thought.

The Gospel according to Thomas is a collection of sayings, or ideas that were disallowed by the early Christian church, and is believed by some Bible scholars to reflect the early oral traditions of Christianity. It is a part of the Nag Hammadi Library. This is one of the better known sayings from Thomas:-

I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.

This reflects very closely one tenet of the indigenous Javanese system of belief.

To understand Jawa it is necessary to understand the grassroots beliefs of the common people.

The keris in Jawa is a multi facetted object.
Those facets run into a very comprehensive list, and relate to most human activities and philosophical approaches to life. In any consideration of the keris we need to understand that Javanese culture and society does not operate at any level on a single understanding, nor a single meaning, that relates to anything. Every icon, every symbol, every way of behaviour, every word has multiple meanings , none of which disallow any others.

Thus, there is more than just one way in which to understand the keris.

In the elite levels of traditional Javanese society it was, and is, deemed unfitting for a man to be involved with money or commerce. Money by its very nature is impure, as such, money, and all related to it is unclean, and thus is the domain of women, who are impure beings. We can see the reflection of this way of thought in the way in which traditional trade in Jawa is carried on today:- it is the role of women to trade, it is the role of men to build reputation.

This societal prohibition on men being involved with money created a difficulty, in that a man was very restricted in how he was able to store wealth in a societally acceptable form. Gold, gems, real estate, live-stock, horses, keris --- all these things were clean ways in which to store wealth. All these things are subject to trade, and because of their function within traditional Javanese society, they must be traded:- you buy when you have money, but before the crop comes in, when times are getting tough, you sell. This is the way in which traditional Javanese society works.

It is recognised that within Javanese society the people who have the highest knowledge of the keris are the people who are involved in the keris trade. This was recognised in Centini where it is decided that if the speakers wish to learn about keris, they need to go down to the market to discuss with a seller (sorry for the gloss, but I forget the details and I don't have time to look up sources and quotes).

Thus, one aspect of the keris is as a store of wealth, and in the Javanese mind, this aspect does not disallow other aspects, so the same keris that is a store of wealth from one perspective can be a powerful spiritual icon from a different perspective.

To understand how this can be, one needs to be able to think in a Javanese fashion:- nothing is limited to only one meaning, nor to only one way of understanding.

It is our kabatinan that suggests, sometimes directs, us to think in a particular way that is in harmony with the circumstances.

[David]

Gentlemen, i cannot tell you how wonderful this conversation is for me right now and the synchronicity of thought it is having with other conversations i am having in other places at the moment.
Alan, this last post of yours is just amazingly presented from my perspective. Thank you very much.

[Kulino]

Dear Alan,
You have explained things so eloquently, no other words are needed.

Looking at your comment in respect of creation and men, another thought.
My teacher taught me exactly the rule you mentioned. He added that the combination of men made objects and creation would empower the object. For educational purposes, could you comment on that?

I agree, keris are an asset with a potential monetary value. The thing that bugs me the most is that some trading is done with the idea that with obtaining the keris you gain a higher (social, spiritual) standard. It becomes a kind of competition. And with that, the more you can spend, the higher the standard you can obtain.
That’s totally different from the regular man's economic necessity.
Although I think it is a shame to sell a prized family possession, I also realise that is a very elite point of view.
In the western world we have discarded all things spiritual and now some of us are in deer need for them. So we turn to cultures which still uphold these values. When we see these cultures picking up the western path by choosing a Honda instead of a keris, we are shocked. We forget that to (re) appreciate ones roots, apparently one has to go through a series of cultural stages. With the risk of losing things in transit.

Maybe it is better to say that I can afford to stay away from trading. Sometimes I cannot avoid a money exchange. I paid for the keris sajen. But also sometimes I step away from a tempting keris. Martin Kerner offered me the keris Vogelsäng shortly before he passed away. The proto keris was excavated inside the krater of mount Bromo. From me he would accept any offer because, as he told me, he wanted a good home for the keris. I thanked him for his kind offer, but refused. Why, it is such an unique keris, only seen depicted in Candi Sukuh? The keris was an offering to the spirits of mount Bromo. It should not have been taken away from the mountain in the first place. That's why I drew that line. No idea where it is now.

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm pleased that what I have written in my post # 40 was of interest.

However, what I did not say in that post, and what I would like to add now, is that the view I have placed before you is not an all encompassing perspective that covers all Javanese people through all periods of time. It is a bit of a mish-mash of a few dominant ideas that wind through 1000 years or more.

For instance, the remarks in respect of women and their place in society would have no place in the society of the Hindu-Buddhist era. Quite the reverse would be true:- man + woman complete the societal unit and are the foundation of a strong society. One cannot be complete without the other. The central icon of the belief system during that era was the Lingga-Yoni, symbolic of not only Siwa and his Shakti, but of the male/female principle and the totality of past-present-future. Without reproduction the cosmos collapses. This is something that is very well understood by all traditionally based farming societies, but people who buy their milk in cartons from a supermarket need to stop and think just exactly where the milk comes from, especially if they have never seen or smelt a cow.

Money was clearly not a dirty word in Majapahit times:- Majapahit was deeply involved in trade, and much of that trade was controlled by princes and nobles from the Majapahit court.

But then Islam entered the arena and gradually a new set of values replaced some of the old values. Then there was the domination of the Javanese ruling elite by Europeans, which did not help much in the maintenance of the old ways.

So what we see now, and in the recent past cannot be taken as representative of an unchanging perspective through the totality of Javanese time. However, it is probably true to say that the Hindu-Buddhist influence, the Islamic influence, the influence of Europeans, and right now at the present time, the influence of Internationalism are merely layers that cover an unchanging foundation, a foundation that is so ingrained in the Javanese persona that most Javanese people would not consciously recognise its elements. Its just there. It exists but is unseen, and it does not come to the surface until some situation calls for it to re-emerge.

Those elements that are constant are the ancestors, the stream of being that flows through everything in existence, and the unity of the One God : The Creator : The Maintainer : The Finisher. Time does not flow in a straight line, it is cyclical, so that which finishes, forms the new creation. Everything in existence is a part of the same whole.

If we can relate to this way of looking at the fact that we exist at all, it brings us back to something I wrote in my previous post:-

"--- all in existence is an expression of the Creator's will ---"

if this is true, does man create anything?

Before the Modern Era when a Balinese person created any art-work, he was performing the act of creation for God. It was not the final result that was the objective, the objective was the form of worship that the act of creation involved. A shrine is an empty place until the moment that the spirit of that shrine takes up residence in it. A man can be thought of in the same way. This way of thinking is not unique to any culture, but recurs and recurs and recurs through all cultures.

So:-

" --- the combination of men made objects and creation would empower the object ---"

was the object made by man?

Does "man" actually have the independent power to make anything?

[Kulino]

A nice philosophical question: Does man create anything.
I teach fine art for a living. I use to be quite a proficient painter. There I had the same feeling as when I danced. When a painting was finished I had to conclude that somehow the painting had ‘done itself’. Dancing a dance or being a dance (filling the character of the dance). This difference has the same scope. Was it just channelling a higher genius, Godly energy? Maybe. When man touches Roh it is due because of his intend, free choice or was it already in store for him? If so, how can man strive to reach a higher level? Or was even this road already intended. Many religions ask themselves the same question.
Both my teachers told me not to follow a ready path but make my own. And to be aware of the events,(or objects) which occurs during my journey.
The thing is, both keris and stones are a manifestation of our reality.
Was the combination of keris and stone intended like a marriage. One fulfils the other?

This pyrit has not been touched. It is pure kodrat. The nails runs through and through. Kodrat Paku Buana.

Reading back I have to re-phrase. Making my own path is not like breaking new ground. It is more like surfing on top of a wave (a nice metaphor which must appeal to you ), following the wave, anticipating on what I ‘see’. Tak dir is true, but somehow this is not contradicting, me surfing.