Origin of the Balisong?

RobT · 25th October 2016, 03:31 AM

Vandoo,

I am aware of the Japanese and Chinese war fans but I've never seen one close up to examine the mechanism. If the war fan mechanism is the same as on the balisong, a Chinese origin may be credible. That may depend on when the balisong first appeared in the Philippines and when Philippine natives would have likely last seen a war fan. The further apart those two dates are, the less likely is a Chinese origin unless you want to postulate that the knife itself was actually invented by the Chinese. Fascinating discussion.

Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 25th October 2016, 09:13 PM

However the US and Balisong mechanisms are virtually identical.

VANDOO · 25th October 2016, 10:38 PM

MANY FANS HAVE A HANDLE AND A PERMANENTLY OPEN BLADE. MOST FANS THAT FOLD UP ONLY OPEN 90 DEGREES OR HALF WAY. SOME FANS HAVE LONGER SIDES AND OPEN COMPLETELY AND THE SIDES BECOME THE HANDLE LIKE THE BUTTERFLY KNIVES. WHICH CAME FIRST PROBABLY THE FAN AND THAT GAVE SOMEONE THE IDEA FOR THE KNIFE. I HAVE SEEN JAPANESE DAGGERS DISGUISED AS FANS BUT THEY WERE THE USUAL KNIFE AND SCABBARD FORM. THE KNIFE THAT STARTED THE POST MAY HAVE BEEN PURPOSELY DISGUISED AS A RULER.

RobT · 26th October 2016, 02:09 AM

As a woodworker, I should have looked more closely at the pied du roy because I would have seen that the hinge is exactly the same as the main hinge on US and English box (or boxwood) folding rulers. A quick online search reveals that this type of ruler has been popular in the US and England since the early 1800s at least. The knife blade in the pied du roy example may have been attached for use as a handy scribe.
So, if I understand what has been said so far, we have three choices.
1) The balisong was developed in the Philippines independent of any outside influence. Note that the prior existence of similar blades outside of the Philippines doesn't preclude the possibility of parallel evolution.
2) The balisong was developed in the Philippines as a result of Filipino exposure to mechanically similar items such as a fan or a box rule.
3) The balisong began to be made in the Philippines after Filipino exposure to a balisong style knife that that had been made outside of the Philippines.

Sincerely,
RobT

25th October 2016, 03:31 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Possible Japanese or Chinese Fans Vandoo, I am aware of the Japanese and Chinese war fans but I've never seen one close up to examine the mechanism. If the war fan mechanism is the same as on the balisong, a Chinese origin may be credible. That may depend on when the balisong first appeared in the Philippines and when Philippine natives would have likely last seen a war fan. The further apart those two dates are, the less likely is a Chinese origin unless you want to postulate that the knife itself was actually invented by the Chinese. Fascinating discussion. Sincerely, RobT

26th October 2016, 02:09 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Just a Few More Notes As a woodworker, I should have looked more closely at the pied du roy because I would have seen that the hinge is exactly the same as the main hinge on US and English box (or boxwood) folding rulers. A quick online search reveals that this type of ruler has been popular in the US and England since the early 1800s at least. The knife blade in the pied du roy example may have been attached for use as a handy scribe. So, if I understand what has been said so far, we have three choices. 1) The balisong was developed in the Philippines independent of any outside influence. Note that the prior existence of similar blades outside of the Philippines doesn't preclude the possibility of parallel evolution. 2) The balisong was developed in the Philippines as a result of Filipino exposure to mechanically similar items such as a fan or a box rule. 3) The balisong began to be made in the Philippines after Filipino exposure to a balisong style knife that that had been made outside of the Philippines. Sincerely, RobT

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25th October 2016, 09:13 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	However the US and Balisong mechanisms are virtually identical.

25th October 2016, 10:38 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MANY FANS HAVE A HANDLE AND A PERMANENTLY OPEN BLADE. MOST FANS THAT FOLD UP ONLY OPEN 90 DEGREES OR HALF WAY. SOME FANS HAVE LONGER SIDES AND OPEN COMPLETELY AND THE SIDES BECOME THE HANDLE LIKE THE BUTTERFLY KNIVES. WHICH CAME FIRST PROBABLY THE FAN AND THAT GAVE SOMEONE THE IDEA FOR THE KNIFE. I HAVE SEEN JAPANESE DAGGERS DISGUISED AS FANS BUT THEY WERE THE USUAL KNIFE AND SCABBARD FORM. THE KNIFE THAT STARTED THE POST MAY HAVE BEEN PURPOSELY DISGUISED AS A RULER.