Powder flask needs help

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=rickystl]Hi Ibrahiim.

I've occassionally wondered wheather the medium/larger hard leather flasks were more commonly used to carry water versus gunpowder. Sort of like a Spanish leather wine bola. (?) Of course the moulded leather would work well to carry either. My thinking was also based on the rather large opening in the Persian style flasks. Seems more suited for drinking water than pouring powder.
Here are three hard leather flasks. The two larger ones have the wide opening and are just large enough to act as a small canteen to carry a reasonable amount of water. The smaller Arab style flask (associated with the camel scrotum style) with it's narrow, tapered neck seems better suited to pour gunpowder into a measure or barrel. And it's way to small to act as a canteen.

That said, many of the Ethno flasks/horns tend to have larger diameter pour spouts than their European counterparts. Especially the Moroccan horns. One theory I have for this is that an approximate amount of powder was simply pourded into the palm of the other hand, instead of a pre-formed measure, before inserting into the barrel.


Hello rickyst, Good point ! I have the impression that a number of solutions worked... First that two powder flasks were used the first being somewhat coarser powder for the main barrel charge and the second for the pan being far finer powder. Could it be, regarding how much to use, that these scrotum flasks could measure using the stopper or lid device to fill a set amount of powder? In Oman set powder charge amounts could be pre loaded onto a sort of bandolier which I think evolved from the Ottoman form; sometimes a brass or wooden, silver often hexagonal, small tube with a stopper(the wadd) of the exact amount you could just tip down the barrel. sliding in the ball and wadd, ramming and ready!... In addition there was always the simple method of carrying a brass measure into which powder could be accurately poured...then transferred to the barrel.

I use the word bandolier cautiously as some indications are that these apparent sections of what look like a belt were in fact carried in a pouch/bag and not around the waist or across the chest.

Please see http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...Matchlock.html where this site has really got its act together and at Matchlocks it has almost every aspect of this subject as applied to Oman.

[kahnjar1]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Ibrahiim.

I've occassionally wondered wheather the medium/larger hard leather flasks were more commonly used to carry water versus gunpowder. Sort of like a Spanish leather wine bola. (?) Of course the moulded leather would work well to carry either. My thinking was also based on the rather large opening in the Persian style flasks. Seems more suited for drinking water than pouring powder.
Here are three hard leather flasks. The two larger ones have the wide opening and are just large enough to act as a small canteen to carry a reasonable amount of water. The smaller Arab style flask (associated with the camel scrotum style) with it's narrow, tapered neck seems better suited to pour gunpowder into a measure or barrel. And it's way to small to act as a canteen.

That said, many of the Ethno flasks/horns tend to have larger diameter pour spouts than their European counterparts. Especially the Moroccan horns. One theory I have for this is that an approximate amount of powder was simply pourded into the palm of the other hand, instead of a pre-formed measure, before inserting into the barrel.


Hello rickyst, Good point ! I have the impression that a number of solutions worked... First that two powder flasks were used the first being somewhat coarser powder for the main barrel charge and the second for the pan being far finer powder. Could it be, regarding how much to use, that these scrotum flasks could measure using the stopper or lid device to fill a set amount of powder? In Oman set powder charge amounts could be pre loaded onto a sort of bandolier which I think evolved from the Ottoman form; sometimes a brass or wooden, silver often hexagonal, small tube with a stopper(the wadd) of the exact amount you could just tip down the barrel. sliding in the ball and wadd, ramming and ready!... In addition there was always the simple method of carrying a brass measure into which powder could be accurately poured...then transferred to the barrel.

I use the word bandolier cautiously as some indications are that these apparent sections of what look like a belt were in fact carried in a pouch/bag and not around the waist or across the chest.

Please see http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...Matchlock.html where this site has really got its act together and at Matchlocks it has almost every aspect of this subject as applied to Oman.

Here is a pic of an Omani one which I have, which is definitely designed for , and is on its original belt.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Here is a pic of an Omani one which I have, which is definitely designed for , and is on its original belt.
Stu

Yes it is interesting as http://www.omanisilver.com/contents..._Matchlock.html who as I say have gotten their act together much better but who infuriatingly do not allow cut n paste or any such copying even for educational and research purposes ...hisss!!! appear to suggest that these systems may not have had a belt... They may be right and as I see it the difficulty in deciding if these are all genuine belts is by no means easy and since they are leather I tend to agree they may be added later ....it is difficult to say... but they suggest not. I was always of the opinion that they came with a belt... but that is because the Omani tendency to wear gun belts with Martini Henry ...and before that who knows?

I think what you can say is the unit you have may have been added to many times but that being certain it all started off as original may be more difficult ...not that it detracts from the item which benefits from the charm of being old in several parts.

The other conundrum is the powder flask which some say is Moroccan some say Ottoman but which the same people say is Omani... I always thought it was but many claim it is not... I suppose it is who influenced who? and if the item has become embedded in the culture ?...It would appear that the Omani Talahiq; the silver half moon shape powder flask has a lot of influence from Ottoman style and of course abu futtila were originally Persian, Indian and German derived.