Keris Bugis discussion

A. G. Maisey · 4th September 2016, 11:51 PM

Yes Jean, people mostly do not realise just how important and influential Ngayogjokarto is in the world of Indonesian silverwork. The area of Ngayogjokarto that is the silver working centre of the area is Kota Gede (Big Town).

Kota Gede silver work has a history going back to the establishment of the Kraton of Mataram there in the late 16th century.

I have been told, but I do not know how accurate this is, that all other silver working areas in Indonesia can be traced back to the original craftsmen coming from Kota Gede. I was told this by a man who is very highly placed in the Kota Gede hierarchy, so it would have been in his interests to claim this, but even so, it could well be true.

You would be very surprised by where some of the product of the Kota Gede craftsmen ends up, mostly the end sellers claim manufacture in other, more prestigious locations, such as -- just for example -- Florence in Italy.

A. G. Maisey · 5th September 2016, 01:46 PM

I've been thinking about what I wrote in my post # 8.

I think I've phrased what I said badly.

"All through S.E.Asia, in the Peninsula, Sumatra, along the North Coast of Jawa, in Lombok, in the further Eastern Islands, in scattered small islands throughout the Archipelago we can find keris blades that have the overall appearance (pawakan) of genuine Bugis blades, but that lack the flat faces and gusen of the genuine Bugis blade"

The Bugis people spread far and wide.

They carried their keris with them.

Over time the keris that were made in those places far from the Sulawesi homeland lost some of the details of the keris that were made in Sulawesi.

They were still Bugis keris, but Bugis keris made in places other than Sulawesi.

Does this make those slightly different keris any less Bugis in origin ?

Does it strip them of their Bugis heritage, so that they are no longer "Bugis"?

I rather think not.

The Bugis are a people, not a place.

Perhaps we should think of these other Bugis keris still as Bugis keris, but qualify that by adding something like:- "from a location outside Sulawesi"

Gustav · 6th September 2016, 10:22 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17886

A. G. Maisey · 6th September 2016, 11:32 PM

That hilt is the same type, but there are considerable differences in execution.

Still, Lombok might be a very good bet.

I believe that Lombok silverwork owes its existence to the Celuk tradition, and this work does look more like Celuk than Jogja in a few ways.

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4th September 2016, 11:51 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes Jean, people mostly do not realise just how important and influential Ngayogjokarto is in the world of Indonesian silverwork. The area of Ngayogjokarto that is the silver working centre of the area is Kota Gede (Big Town). Kota Gede silver work has a history going back to the establishment of the Kraton of Mataram there in the late 16th century. I have been told, but I do not know how accurate this is, that all other silver working areas in Indonesia can be traced back to the original craftsmen coming from Kota Gede. I was told this by a man who is very highly placed in the Kota Gede hierarchy, so it would have been in his interests to claim this, but even so, it could well be true. You would be very surprised by where some of the product of the Kota Gede craftsmen ends up, mostly the end sellers claim manufacture in other, more prestigious locations, such as -- just for example -- Florence in Italy.

5th September 2016, 01:46 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I've been thinking about what I wrote in my post # 8. I think I've phrased what I said badly. "All through S.E.Asia, in the Peninsula, Sumatra, along the North Coast of Jawa, in Lombok, in the further Eastern Islands, in scattered small islands throughout the Archipelago we can find keris blades that have the overall appearance (pawakan) of genuine Bugis blades, but that lack the flat faces and gusen of the genuine Bugis blade" The Bugis people spread far and wide. They carried their keris with them. Over time the keris that were made in those places far from the Sulawesi homeland lost some of the details of the keris that were made in Sulawesi. They were still Bugis keris, but Bugis keris made in places other than Sulawesi. Does this make those slightly different keris any less Bugis in origin ? Does it strip them of their Bugis heritage, so that they are no longer "Bugis"? I rather think not. The Bugis are a people, not a place. Perhaps we should think of these other Bugis keris still as Bugis keris, but qualify that by adding something like:- "from a location outside Sulawesi"

6th September 2016, 10:22 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17886

6th September 2016, 11:32 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	That hilt is the same type, but there are considerable differences in execution. Still, Lombok might be a very good bet. I believe that Lombok silverwork owes its existence to the Celuk tradition, and this work does look more like Celuk than Jogja in a few ways.