CLOISONNE PRIMER FLASK AND BULLET BOX

[ward]

With a slide off lid you would lose the top pretty quickly if it was a bullet box. Also can you imagine having this box half full with round lead balls on a horse or camel at full gallup. I would think that pieces of the decoration would be all over the place.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by ward

With a slide off lid you would lose the top pretty quickly if it was a bullet box. Also can you imagine having this box half full with round lead balls on a horse or camel at full gallup. I would think that pieces of the decoration would be all over the place.

.....Agreed........ so it is a Quran box.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

.....Agreed........ so it is a Quran box.

Hi Stu.

Yes, I have to agree with Ward. The sliding cover would be too impractical to retrieve bullets from.
However, the typical hinged boxes work very well. I've actually tried this (although not from horse or camel LOL) with pre-formed cartidges (paper wrapped powder and ball) with the containers mounted on a waist belt. It works very well and is quick to reload a pistol. So I can see why these bullet containers were so popular.
Anyway, I still like your set. Very attracive looking.

Rick

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Stu.

Yes, I have to agree with Ward. The sliding cover would be too impractical to retrieve bullets from.
However, the typical hinged boxes work very well. I've actually tried this (although not from horse or camel LOL) with pre-formed cartidges (paper wrapped powder and ball) with the containers mounted on a waist belt. It works very well and is quick to reload a pistol. So I can see why these bullet containers were so popular.
Anyway, I still like your set. Very attracive looking.
Rick

Hi Rick,

I think that's more complicated than black or white.
Some Koran boxes are Koran boxes even the locals call them like that.
However some Koran boxes are very small and exactly the size of the palaskas. The ones who have this kind of bullet boxes will understand what I mean... For the use from a running horse or camel lol like in cowboy movies...
best

[ward]

I believe we were discussing a specific box with a specific construction and decoration. If we were going to branch out to other constructions and decorations than the use of an item may change. I actually like the work done on these items I suspect it is later 1945-1970 but that is just speculation from jewelry that has a known age of that.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The designation Quran holder is interesting because it has not so much to do with the sliding lid...although this is in fact true ...and is an excellent bit of logical detective work...but that it is the decoration on the box and its shape which signifies its use....Artwork has to be geometrical as this was the form of art linked to the religious form...There is no way a box of this definition could be used as a bullet container...What I find odd is that these two items are part of a set...perhaps the item that looks like a powder flask is only a decorative item?...or talismanic...

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The designation Quran holder is interesting because it has not so much to do with the sliding lid...although this is in fact true ...and is an excellent bit of logical detective work...but that it is the decoration on the box and its shape which signifies its use....Artwork has to be geometrical as this was the form of art linked to the religious form...There is no way a box of this definition could be used as a bullet container...What I find odd is that these two items are part of a set...perhaps the item that looks like a powder flask is only a decorative item?...or talismanic...

Salaams Ibrahiim. I should point out that at no stage were these two items referred to by me as a "set"..... Simply that they came from the same source.
Also the flask contained a small amount of darkish grey residue which I suspect would be powder.....
Stu

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,

I think that's more complicated than black or white.
Some Koran boxes are Koran boxes even the locals call them like that.
However some Koran boxes are very small and exactly the size of the palaskas. The ones who have this kind of bullet boxes will understand what I mean... For the use from a running horse or camel lol like in cowboy movies...
best

Hi Kubur !! How have you been ?

I've noticed the Koran holders all seem to have a similar squarish construction, and rings for attaching a throng or cord. Which could be carried around the neck, waistbelt, or most anything. This seems logical to me.

The Palaskas, wheather Ottoman, Greek, etc. all seem to have the construction/shape as per my pic above. With an intentional cast-in or soldered loop on the back side for a snug fit on a waist belt. And they all seem to be about the same size. Beyond tradition, I've often wondered why this specific shape was used. I'm still not sure. But, as mentioned above, I do not believe these were designed to carry loose lead balls. Instead, I believe they were used to carry pre-made paper cartridges for use with the pistols on horseback.

While I guess both containers could be used for cross purposes, it seems each was generally designed for their seperate purposes.

Rick

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Kubur !! How have you been ?
Rick

Hi Rick,
I' doing my best to collect some guns that you don't have but it's difficult...

Originally Posted by rickystl

rings for attaching a throng or cord. Which could be carried around the neck, waistbelt, or most anything. This seems logical to me.
The Palaskas, wheather Ottoman, Greek, etc. all seem to have the construction/shape as per my pic above. With an intentional cast-in or soldered loop on the back side for a snug fit on a waist belt. And they all seem to be about the same size.
Rick

OK I' ve a different opinion. Look at this small Ottoman box and what do you think about the suspensions...
Now the Greek and Turkish are not the Africans / Berbers. I think they had different fashions and uses. About the Moroccan rings of the so called Koran boxes, they are very similar to the rings that you can find on Moroccan powder flask and koummiya.

Originally Posted by rickystl

I do not believe these were designed to carry loose lead balls. Instead, I believe they were used to carry pre-made paper cartridges for use with the pistols on horseback.
While I guess both containers could be used for cross purposes, it seems each was generally designed for their seperate purposes.
Rick

I follow you on that one. My point was just that some Koran boxes were not Koran boxes.

[ward]

The only similarities are that they all are containers.