Mr. Oakeshott's Sword

Jim McDougall · 13th July 2016, 12:31 AM

While not wishing to deviate from the discussion of the posted Oakeshott sword, the subject of artistic license is I think key to the process of historical detection here, and a fascinating subject.
I also appreciate the elucidation on the Latin terms 'terminus ante quem' and 'terminus post quem', which are of course key to the protocols of such detection.

It seems that in earlier times, the idea of antiquated thus traditional or venerated weapons was far subordinate to having the most up to date or fashionable arms of the time. In the case of paintings or works depicting ancient or Biblical themes, the artists often did not have access to the weapons of these times, and simply imagined weapons which suited their themes.
Rembrandt was not only a collector of arms and armor to be used as studies in his works, but of other miscellania for the same purposes.
Most notable instance that comes to mind is his use of an Indonesian keris in the painting of Samson and Delilah, in which the wavy blade profoundly accents the sinister demeanor of the event.

With Norman, whose work using portraiture as a means of identifying the character and styling of hilts, he has achieved a brilliantly reliable accounting of these. As portraits were typically done in real time and with the subject displaying proudly their own personal arms, the noted span on their life establishes a central time frame for the style of hilt seen.

Naturally, a certain weapon might be a heirloom and have earlier provenance, but it would seem that in most cases, the subject would prefer to be wearing the most current and fashionable weapon of the time.

As for the cases of artistic license, it seems these would have been more aligned with paintings of historic, ancient or Biblical events or figures, using either more current weaponry or in some cases more exotic forms to dramatize the rendering.

Getting back to the topic sword being discussed:
I think Jasper has wonderfully explained his reasoning and analysis regarding this and agree with his thoughts on the probable date on this being later than Oakeshott's estimate.

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13th July 2016, 12:31 AM	#32
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,269	While not wishing to deviate from the discussion of the posted Oakeshott sword, the subject of artistic license is I think key to the process of historical detection here, and a fascinating subject. I also appreciate the elucidation on the Latin terms 'terminus ante quem' and 'terminus post quem', which are of course key to the protocols of such detection. It seems that in earlier times, the idea of antiquated thus traditional or venerated weapons was far subordinate to having the most up to date or fashionable arms of the time. In the case of paintings or works depicting ancient or Biblical themes, the artists often did not have access to the weapons of these times, and simply imagined weapons which suited their themes. Rembrandt was not only a collector of arms and armor to be used as studies in his works, but of other miscellania for the same purposes. Most notable instance that comes to mind is his use of an Indonesian keris in the painting of Samson and Delilah, in which the wavy blade profoundly accents the sinister demeanor of the event. With Norman, whose work using portraiture as a means of identifying the character and styling of hilts, he has achieved a brilliantly reliable accounting of these. As portraits were typically done in real time and with the subject displaying proudly their own personal arms, the noted span on their life establishes a central time frame for the style of hilt seen. Naturally, a certain weapon might be a heirloom and have earlier provenance, but it would seem that in most cases, the subject would prefer to be wearing the most current and fashionable weapon of the time. As for the cases of artistic license, it seems these would have been more aligned with paintings of historic, ancient or Biblical events or figures, using either more current weaponry or in some cases more exotic forms to dramatize the rendering. Getting back to the topic sword being discussed: I think Jasper has wonderfully explained his reasoning and analysis regarding this and agree with his thoughts on the probable date on this being later than Oakeshott's estimate.