Introduction

BANDOOK · 12th June 2016, 12:37 PM

HELLO SHAMSY
GREETINGS FROM ACROSS THE DITCH,ME AND Kahnjar1 ARE IN NEW ZEALAND ,SO GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE AND HAPPY COLLECTING AND AM SURE YOU WILL LEARN A LOT FOM KNOWLEDGEBLE MEMBERS HERE
REGARDS
RAJESH ALVA

Shamsy · 13th June 2016, 02:00 AM

Thank you all so much for the advice and warm welcome! I've already learned a few things from my brief foray into the archives. I think I will keep my focus open since I was first drawn to African arms as armour because of the variety and the fact I just liked some of the pieces. Good advice!

Kahnjar, I've attempted to add a picture of my shield for you. It's quite different, though I saw one exactly as you described for sale recently in a small antique shop. It was rhino hide, in fantastic condition. At least they don't fake those! I'd like to buy it actually, but they were after about... $1,000 US equivalent which is a lot of money. Not tech savvy, and I can't see my post as I'm on probation, but here goes...

kahnjar1 · 13th June 2016, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the pic. Not sure what the origin of your shield is. Someone no doubt will know and reply in due course. As for the Omani one in your antique shop I suggest it will be there for quite sometime. As we are not supposed to discus values here I will not comment further but you get the idea I expect.
Stu

Shamsy · 13th June 2016, 07:51 AM

Thank you Stu, I hear you loud and clear. I'll be doing a lot more research before I go spending more than a few dollars. Books are always the best investment and best return.

As to the shields origin, the only information I have is that provided by the seller. Sudanese, somewhere in 1800s. I am quite certain I have it hanging the wrong way to, but have yet to correct this.

Martin Lubojacky · 13th June 2016, 09:20 AM

Hi Shamsy and welcome to the forum (it seems like yesterday when I also came up here ...).
To your questions: There are many interesting books on African weapons which I never had in my hands, nevertheles from those I have I would recommend also other books by late Mr Zirngibl - (Afrikanische Waffen, Rare African Short weapons, African Shields), also my favourite book by Christopher Spring - African Arms and Armour.

Collecting African arms is exciting - you will learn to recognize fakes when you see (in natura) enough originals. I think old African weapons and shields is a world of lost technologies and techniques (especially in the case of shields). From this reason it is not easy to make "authentic" copy. It is much more easier to copy masks and statues. I think another reason is various materials used for onr thing - iron, brass, wood, leather...
So good luck !
Martin

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th June 2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamsy

Thank you all so much for the advice and warm welcome! I've already learned a few things from my brief foray into the archives. I think I will keep my focus open since I was first drawn to African arms as armour because of the variety and the fact I just liked some of the pieces. Good advice!

Kahnjar, I've attempted to add a picture of my shield for you. It's quite different, though I saw one exactly as you described for sale recently in a small antique shop. It was rhino hide, in fantastic condition. At least they don't fake those! I'd like to buy it actually, but they were after about... $1,000 US equivalent which is a lot of money. Not tech savvy, and I can't see my post as I'm on probation, but here goes...

Your shield appears to be Indian. Here's another sold on an auction site but they say ~ Quote"A highly rare and desirable Indian large shield (18th or 19th century), made of hide. These don't come up for sale very often. This example is a bit warped, but retains most of its original domed form. The black hide - perhaps buffalo - retains a nice black surface colour and texture. The original handle straps are still intact. All four grip bosses are still solid and secure (these often fall off with age and abuse). Each of the metal fitting on the surface is intricately decorated (see photos), but it has been covered with some kind of varnish which is obscuring this decoration - this should be carefully cleaned off with a chemical remover, but I have left as found. A real gem - large ones like this (26 inches or thereabouts) are really hard to find in the UK, especially in this condition."Unquote.

Shamsy · 14th June 2016, 04:29 AM

That's a great find, thank you Ibrahiim! Rather far off what I was told buying it, but who knows with these things where the dating and location started and if that person was well studied or not. It does bear a striking resemblance, though the warping is not as bad, not to mention matching bosses. I'll start calling it my Indian shield! Since I bought it because I liked it I'm not at all bothered to find out it's probably something other than I though. It could have been a trade item I suppose and ended up in Sudan.

Very glad to have an answer, thank you!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th June 2016, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamsy

That's a great find, thank you Ibrahiim! Rather far off what I was told buying it, but who knows with these things where the dating and location started and if that person was well studied or not. It does bear a striking resemblance, though the warping is not as bad, not to mention matching bosses. I'll start calling it my Indian shield! Since I bought it because I liked it I'm not at all bothered to find out it's probably something other than I though. It could have been a trade item I suppose and ended up in Sudan.

Very glad to have an answer, thank you!

Thank you ~ Heres the link http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antiqu...s-uk/for-sale/
See also http://www.victorianmilitarysociety....e-19th-century Quote" Trophies taken at the battle of Tofrek in 1885, included arms from India - a tulwar sword with dual point and serrated cutting edge and an all steel circular shield (dhal)."Unquote.

Shamsy · 15th June 2016, 09:20 AM

So it is not inconceivable that the seller of the shield could have been correct about it's origins. That's interesting to learn. I enjoyed reading about the huge variety of arms they found, really puts into perspective how individual each warrior was. Very different to the rank and file of other nations. The great variety is what drew me to want to collect African arms and learning that this may even in cue assimilated arms from other cultures is fantastic! Thanks again.

12th June 2016, 12:37 PM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	WELCOME ABORD HELLO SHAMSY GREETINGS FROM ACROSS THE DITCH,ME AND Kahnjar1 ARE IN NEW ZEALAND ,SO GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE AND HAPPY COLLECTING AND AM SURE YOU WILL LEARN A LOT FOM KNOWLEDGEBLE MEMBERS HERE REGARDS RAJESH ALVA

13th June 2016, 02:00 AM	#2
Shamsy Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Australia Posts: 12	Thank you all so much for the advice and warm welcome! I've already learned a few things from my brief foray into the archives. I think I will keep my focus open since I was first drawn to African arms as armour because of the variety and the fact I just liked some of the pieces. Good advice! Kahnjar, I've attempted to add a picture of my shield for you. It's quite different, though I saw one exactly as you described for sale recently in a small antique shop. It was rhino hide, in fantastic condition. At least they don't fake those! I'd like to buy it actually, but they were after about... $1,000 US equivalent which is a lot of money. Not tech savvy, and I can't see my post as I'm on probation, but here goes... Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

13th June 2016, 05:27 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Thanks for the pic. Not sure what the origin of your shield is. Someone no doubt will know and reply in due course. As for the Omani one in your antique shop I suggest it will be there for quite sometime. As we are not supposed to discus values here I will not comment further but you get the idea I expect. Stu

13th June 2016, 07:51 AM	#4
Shamsy Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Australia Posts: 12	Thank you Stu, I hear you loud and clear. I'll be doing a lot more research before I go spending more than a few dollars. Books are always the best investment and best return. As to the shields origin, the only information I have is that provided by the seller. Sudanese, somewhere in 1800s. I am quite certain I have it hanging the wrong way to, but have yet to correct this.

13th June 2016, 09:20 AM	#5
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hi Shamsy and welcome to the forum (it seems like yesterday when I also came up here ...). To your questions: There are many interesting books on African weapons which I never had in my hands, nevertheles from those I have I would recommend also other books by late Mr Zirngibl - (Afrikanische Waffen, Rare African Short weapons, African Shields), also my favourite book by Christopher Spring - African Arms and Armour. Collecting African arms is exciting - you will learn to recognize fakes when you see (in natura) enough originals. I think old African weapons and shields is a world of lost technologies and techniques (especially in the case of shields). From this reason it is not easy to make "authentic" copy. It is much more easier to copy masks and statues. I think another reason is various materials used for onr thing - iron, brass, wood, leather... So good luck ! Martin

14th June 2016, 04:29 AM	#7
Shamsy Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Australia Posts: 12	That's a great find, thank you Ibrahiim! Rather far off what I was told buying it, but who knows with these things where the dating and location started and if that person was well studied or not. It does bear a striking resemblance, though the warping is not as bad, not to mention matching bosses. I'll start calling it my Indian shield! Since I bought it because I liked it I'm not at all bothered to find out it's probably something other than I though. It could have been a trade item I suppose and ended up in Sudan. Very glad to have an answer, thank you!

15th June 2016, 09:20 AM	#9
Shamsy Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Australia Posts: 12	So it is not inconceivable that the seller of the shield could have been correct about it's origins. That's interesting to learn. I enjoyed reading about the huge variety of arms they found, really puts into perspective how individual each warrior was. Very different to the rank and file of other nations. The great variety is what drew me to want to collect African arms and learning that this may even in cue assimilated arms from other cultures is fantastic! Thanks again.