A straight blade or a curved one?

ariel · 2nd February 2006, 06:29 PM

maybe, we can ask some postal workers?

MABAGANI · 2nd February 2006, 07:26 PM

I'm not a postal worker, lol, but I like to swordplay with antiques. There are a bunch of factors you need to take into account with the hilt, length, blade alignment, grip, impact area, target, etc. with either the straight or curved blade. In general, a straight blade in relation to the hilt could have a forward lean, straight or back lean and each is going to move different so it depends on what one wants to accomplish in a fight. Most the time its not really a chop but a cut drag on impact. A straight blade with a forward lean drags deeper, back lean slices more automatically, and a blade straight with the hilt, one would cut draw. A curved blade slices more naturally leading into arced motions to another cut or ends and leads into another cut if needed. The effects on the arm and hand with either the straight or curved blade depends on the skill and conditioning of the swordsman and it deals more with body mechanics and structure besides what one strikes. Of course, one could rig it all into a machine and do calculated measurements but it'd miss the whole complex human aspect and reality.

Radu Transylvanicus · 2nd February 2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

maybe, we can ask some postal workers?

Jens, this is such a vague subject, unless you have specific examples in mind, no answer should be satisfactory.
And a reminder that straight swords are generally associated with thrusting and pedestrian usage while curved swords (sabers) are associated slashing and cavalry usage. As far as a chop cut , yes the straight sword impact on target has more blunt stop than a curved blade, therefore it does stress you wrist more. There are some most interesting and disturbing written military accounts on the subjact of sword comparation used by the French versus English soldiers in combat during the Napoleonian wars, the English one was the curved 1796 Light Cavalry pattern saber.

B.I · 2nd February 2006, 07:57 PM

hi jens,
maybe worth considering the time and place, as well as the form. maybe the sabre is more useful when encountering a certain type of enemy, armed with a specific type of weapon.
i remember getting a lesson/lecture/speech about why the british 1908 was the most effective of military swords, even though it was straight amidst a pattern of curved predecessors (including the previous best - the 1796). cant remember the details (may have fallen asleep :-) but know the military history and current wars were taken into consideration when the design was approved.

manicdj · 2nd February 2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.I

hi jens,
maybe worth considering the time and place, as well as the form. maybe the sabre is more useful when encountering a certain type of enemy, armed with a specific type of weapon.
i remember getting a lesson/lecture/speech about why the british 1908 was the most effective of military swords, even though it was straight amidst a pattern of curved predecessors (including the previous best - the 1796). cant remember the details (may have fallen asleep :-) but know the military history and current wars were taken into consideration when the design was approved.

when the need is great, insperation is the rule " so they say"

fearn · 2nd February 2006, 10:29 PM

Hi Jens,

A couple of quick thoughts.

1) You might find this article interesting: http://www.thearma.org/essays/nobest.htm

2) Burton's Book of the Sword has a really good discussion about the relative advantages of straight vs. curved.

We can also add in a discussion that has popped up here, about how blunt, squarish tips are better for chopping than long, thin tips, because there is less tip shock.

Those are some quick thoughts. I'll get back to this later.

F

Titus Pullo · 3rd February 2006, 05:58 AM

How about you make it bulkier, a little thicker, and a little shorter with the straight swords? I would imagine it would be more useful. This allows it to cut and thrust very affectively, and it also means that the user must go through a series of regorous strength training exercise to build up muscles to be able to use it well.

I think if I was going with something that you would use to stab someone, I'd go with a lance. Ones with just the right length, not too long not too short, so you can use it to bash someone in the head, face, nose, teeth, with long penatrating point so you can us it to cut someone like a sword, also. This was how the Siamese liked to use a lance on horse. I think with a lance once the initial charge has been lost, it looses its advantage. Using them in a charge would be useful, but for some people like high ranking commanders and his guards a heavy sword would be more useful, since they would not see much action.

Andrew · 3rd February 2006, 01:32 PM

This is always an interesting comparison, even though it so often shows up in the form of tiresome "Samurai vs. Knight" debates.

Reinhardt's ARMA essay referenced by Fearn is helpful. I recall following many, many threads on SFI and Netsword about this issue. My recollection is that straight blades, generally, cut as well as curved. This has also been my personal experience.

The curve (or lack thereof) and construction of a particular blade can certainly affect and influence the approach and technique used, as can the various elements Mabagani mentioned. However, I'm unaware of any convincing evidence demonstrating that one form is superior to another under all circumstances.

I do believe straight blades are superior to deeply curved blades in the thrust.

3rd February 2006, 05:58 AM	#7
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	How about you make it bulkier, a little thicker, and a little shorter with the straight swords? I would imagine it would be more useful. This allows it to cut and thrust very affectively, and it also means that the user must go through a series of regorous strength training exercise to build up muscles to be able to use it well. I think if I was going with something that you would use to stab someone, I'd go with a lance. Ones with just the right length, not too long not too short, so you can use it to bash someone in the head, face, nose, teeth, with long penatrating point so you can us it to cut someone like a sword, also. This was how the Siamese liked to use a lance on horse. I think with a lance once the initial charge has been lost, it looses its advantage. Using them in a charge would be useful, but for some people like high ranking commanders and his guards a heavy sword would be more useful, since they would not see much action. Last edited by Titus Pullo; 3rd February 2006 at 06:37 AM.

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2nd February 2006, 06:29 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	maybe, we can ask some postal workers?

2nd February 2006, 07:26 PM	#2
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	I'm not a postal worker, lol, but I like to swordplay with antiques. There are a bunch of factors you need to take into account with the hilt, length, blade alignment, grip, impact area, target, etc. with either the straight or curved blade. In general, a straight blade in relation to the hilt could have a forward lean, straight or back lean and each is going to move different so it depends on what one wants to accomplish in a fight. Most the time its not really a chop but a cut drag on impact. A straight blade with a forward lean drags deeper, back lean slices more automatically, and a blade straight with the hilt, one would cut draw. A curved blade slices more naturally leading into arced motions to another cut or ends and leads into another cut if needed. The effects on the arm and hand with either the straight or curved blade depends on the skill and conditioning of the swordsman and it deals more with body mechanics and structure besides what one strikes. Of course, one could rig it all into a machine and do calculated measurements but it'd miss the whole complex human aspect and reality.

2nd February 2006, 07:57 PM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi jens, maybe worth considering the time and place, as well as the form. maybe the sabre is more useful when encountering a certain type of enemy, armed with a specific type of weapon. i remember getting a lesson/lecture/speech about why the british 1908 was the most effective of military swords, even though it was straight amidst a pattern of curved predecessors (including the previous best - the 1796). cant remember the details (may have fallen asleep :-) but know the military history and current wars were taken into consideration when the design was approved.

2nd February 2006, 10:29 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Jens, A couple of quick thoughts. 1) You might find this article interesting: http://www.thearma.org/essays/nobest.htm 2) Burton's Book of the Sword has a really good discussion about the relative advantages of straight vs. curved. We can also add in a discussion that has popped up here, about how blunt, squarish tips are better for chopping than long, thin tips, because there is less tip shock. Those are some quick thoughts. I'll get back to this later. F

3rd February 2006, 01:32 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	This is always an interesting comparison, even though it so often shows up in the form of tiresome "Samurai vs. Knight" debates. Reinhardt's ARMA essay referenced by Fearn is helpful. I recall following many, many threads on SFI and Netsword about this issue. My recollection is that straight blades, generally, cut as well as curved. This has also been my personal experience. The curve (or lack thereof) and construction of a particular blade can certainly affect and influence the approach and technique used, as can the various elements Mabagani mentioned. However, I'm unaware of any convincing evidence demonstrating that one form is superior to another under all circumstances. I do believe straight blades are superior to deeply curved blades in the thrust.