Torador breeching.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

I somehow had a senior moment! The ball is a .570" I don't know what made me think .530"....
Still, it makes no odds in the long run.
The only problem with cornmeal as a filler, is that it can cause extra pressure in a constricted area. That is why we don't use it in the Martini-Henry, as it rams up solid in the neck.

Seeing as this barrel isn't so much constricted at the chamber, but more reduced in bore for the chamber, the cornmeal might do very well though. (the slight constriction there was, I reamed /fine -bored out, to simplify it! )
With this constriction removed, I can now tell that the chamber does not enlarge to bore diameter as I figured previously, so in essence a slight tapering towards the breech if anything.

We have been working on loads for an International musket competition we are just starting, to be run in conjunction with our annual "Victorian Riflemen Shoot" here on the farm on 25th & 26th June.
Most of us have had good luck with a ball using thick wads of felt, and plenty of lube, and no patch..
At 50 metres, they seem like they will group in the black allright off-hand, so that will be something to try.


Re. patches;
I used to wander around thrift /fabric shops with a micrometer in my pocket, seeking out the thickness of good dense linen I needed!! I have a good selection still. :-)

The touch-hole on this barrel is right at the breech face, so any small amount of powder could be used, as long as wadding can be rammed down into the narrower breech area. (or cornmeal)
To all intents & purposes, this barrel is (now) simply a .57" or so bore, then a narrower breech area, with parralell (nearly!) sides.
For cleaning;

a wool mop or brush on the rod would work for both our barrels, as being flexible they should pass through a constriction in your case, or into the narrower chamber in my case, without too much trouble.

Let me know how you get on with your barrel!

Richard.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

That's OK. I get senior moments all the time. LOL
Here in the States there is a supplier that has ready made cast round balls in .550 caliber. But there is also a fellow in the U.K. that custom makes moulds in ANY caliber. But you probably know that.
I can definately see not using corn meal in BP Cartridge guns. As you say, it won't compress. Especially in a bottle neck cartridge like the Martini. I think today they use something else for filler, but not sure what it is.

OK. That is an interesting result you found out about your bore after removing the restriced area where the ball would have originally been forced to sit. I think that once this constriced area is removed, it's much simpler to configure how we go about loading, shooting, and cleaning.
And, I may be overly concerned about cleaning the larger breech area. Yes, between a larger diameter brush and some wool felt, I can figure out something.

I was thinking, you and I may be the first ones to attempt to put these Torador barrels in firing condition. LOL And the bore/breech area study along the way. It will be interesting to see what conclusions we end up with.

Normally, I would not shoot a barrel without a THREADED breech plug. But after drilling out the breech face of my barrel, I can see that the forge welding of the plug appears very sturdy. That coupled with the extreme barrel wall thickness, I can't see why the barrel would not hold up to normal charges of black powder.
In the case of my barrel, there is already a hole in the breech face. So the threaded plug is my only option there. Drilling out the constriced area to nominal bore size all the way through the breech face, burnishing the bore and breech area, and installing the threaded plug may be all I need. And may be my only option if he can't make a liner whose O.D. will accomodate both the bore and larger breech areas. But he says he can taper or flare a liner the same as making a new barrel, as long as he knows the measurements. If he can, I will probably go this route since he is already going to this much trouble. LOL I'll keep you posted what we decide to do.
Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

I have often wondered about people firing the toreador, as nothing shows up on line that I can find.

Odd thing about the threaded breech;
We don't trust them without, and in India they didn't trust them With threads!
You are lucky to have a competent gunsmith to do work for you! They are hard to find.
I tend to do it myself, for the latter reason. It started when I was a kid, and the local gunsmith soldered some ramrod pipes on for me and they fell off when I got home, so did it myself!
For a start, I will try a close -fitting ball with no patch, using thick felt wads over and under it, with plenty of lube.
I will also try a remote shot or two to test the barrel prior to shouldering it. :-)
Re. charges,;
I don't want to give the wrong idea here, but Sam Fadala in one of his M/loading books did tests on barrels made of Normal copper water pipe (!)
These barrels had makeshift breechplugs of a bean tin/can, filled with molten lead and the copper pipe dropped in.
A .530" patched ball fit perfectly, and the charge was 130 grains of 2F.
A hole being drilled at the breech for ignition, these 'barrels' were tied to a plank and remote fired.
Result was that the copper pipe did not expand at all when firing the 130 gr charge and close fitting ball.
If however an airspace was left between powder and ball, the barrel swelled up like a snake that had eaten an egg.
A bit more gap between powder and ball & the barrel split.

We both know that we shouldn't leave an airspace between powder and projectile, (you can with BP cartridges as long as the airspace is limited!)
But my point is, that a fairly decent barrel well breeched should be Ok with nominal charges, as what we will be attempting to fire is a lot better than a piece of copper water -pipe. :-)
Caution is the key whether we use threaded or welded breech.
It will be interesting to see our developments. :-)

Richard.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

I too have never been able to locate anything on line with reference to firing these Torador barrels, except for the Mughal Matchlock YouTube video, which was to brief for our level of interest. LOL.
I remember reading that also as the Indians did not trust the threaded breech plug. Curious. But after drilling the hole in the breach of my barrel, I can see where the quality of forge welding was much better than I expected. With the constriction now removed, I don't think you should have any problems. Yes, the lubed felt wads above and below the ball would be a good starting place. And yes, of course, test the barrel seperately from a distance. But I don't think you will have any issues. Anxious to hear your findings.
I'm also anticipating the barrelsmith begining work on my barrel this month. I'll keep you posted in that regard.

Here is another question I have with these Toradors. Did they fire these guns with the end of the butt stock at the shoulder, as would normally be assumed ? Or did they cup the butt stock UNDER the armpit ? At least with mine, I notice I can get a sight picture holding it either way. What do you think?

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

Bit short of time right now, but I think the torador fired from the shoulder would hurt!
The one I have in hand is short enough that if merely hand -held, the 'butt' would be clear of the shoulder. It isn't long enough to fit under the arm, unless on held the firing hand in close to the chest.
Maybe I will get to try it out before too long!

Richard.