The Size of the Keris

[David]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Maybe i have missed the theme. What i tried to say was, that a Keris was never just a symbol of mythology or so.
Keris was mainly a weapon, a very effective and handy weapon, if one knows how to deal with it.

I think, the Keris have probably the highest cutting power of all daggers worldwide, because of the multiple curved shape.
I have one old example with a razor sharp cutting edge and tiny nicks.

In Indonesia they had duels extremely often, even nowadays.
Some users preferred a shorter Keris for duels, because it is an advantage for high skilled users. That is my explanation for the different sizes.

Roland, while i would not argue that the keris originated as a weapon it certainly has not been mainly a weapon for a very long time. Also, the keris is, for the most part, a stabbing weapon, like a rapier as Alan remarked before. Occasionally you do encounter keris with razor sharp cutting edges, but it is not the normal and keris are not really designed for slashing and cutting in that manner. I don't know who these highly skilled modern keris users are who prefer a shorter keris in duels, but 8 inch keris blades are also the exception, not the rule and keris of this size are generally either patrems, keris selit or purely talismanic, none of which are really intended for battle. The purpose of all these much smaller keris (under 10 inches) have recognized purposes throughout the keris world. Occasionally we may see keris in these dimensions that don't fit into those above categories. However, if blades of 8 inches in length were actually preferred for fighting don't you think we would see a whole lot more of them?

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually David, I think that Roland may have given us some very valuable, previously unknown information.

His mention of duels in times past that involved the use of the keris is something I have no knowledge of. In fact, there is no system of fence that was ever taught for the keris, at least in Jawa. The way a keris, or for that matter any weapon is used is to conceal intent until the last moment and then kill the target as quickly and cleanly as possible, before he even knows that he is threatened.

I've seen Indonesian historical soapies where duels proliferate, but that's TV entertainment, not reality.

The mention of duels in the current era is also something unknown to me. For the life of me, I cannot imagine who the protagonists would be. Certainly not any member of the aristocracy, such crude behaviour is something that would see any aristocrat who was involved in it subjected to social exclusion.

In the lower orders of society, especially amongst manual workers and rural workers very savage fights are not uncommon, but the weapon mostly used in those fights is the celurit, simply because it is the weapon that is usually close at hand.

Present day duels with the keris?

Who?

When?

Where?

Yes, previously unknown, and thus valuable information.

[David]

Alan, i believe there are many schools of Silat that teach the keris as a martial weapon with established fencing forms. Perhaps this is what Roland is alluding to. I am not certain whether that notion is what has the inspired the Indonesian "soapies" or if it was the other way around.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes David, the keris is a weapon that is used in Pencak Silat, and in other related SE Asian martial art forms, and within this sphere there is an etiquette and mythology attached to the keris. Some schools will not permit a student to own a keris until the student has reached a particular level.

However, this is not Javanese society --- nor any of the other Indonesian societies.

I sincerely doubt that it is the use of a keris as an implement employed in PS that inspired the soapies. I'd guess it is more likely that the Indonesian mock history TV dramas were inspired by westerns out of Hollywood, or maybe Japanese Samurai films. They would use Javanese myths and legends and dramatise them in very lavish fashion with keris fights that were straight out of movies like "Gunfight at the OK Corral" & etc.

They can be good fun to watch --- as long as you don't confuse them with reality.

Actually, Ole Wyatt was a man whose method of combat was in many instances pretty much in line with the Javanese way of doing things and with Sun Tzu too, for that matter:- whack 'em quick, whack 'em hard and before they even know they're gonna get whacked. Well, at least from what I've read of him, that's the way he preferred to do it --- as would any self respecting sensible person.