Unusually Large Caliber (?) Percussion Target / Dueling Pistols c1860

[Pukka Bundook]

Dana,

The style of the cocks on these pistols appears to me more in line with the 40's rather than '60's but that's all I can say!

Dougall was famous for his Lockfast action, and is a very well known maker.

The barrels of your pistols are a stub iron twist, Nothing 'faux' about them.

I'm surprised you have had a hard time finding pistols of this calibre. They were never as common as say 16 or 14 bore, but do show up quite often.
I'd suggest looking at auction sales, or sale archives at places like Holts.

For a back-up in the hunting field or howdah, pistols of 12 to 10 bore are the norm rather than the exception.
My own pistols from this period are smaller bore than these, (16 bore, 20-bore or .62 calibre, and about 22 bore.) Apart from pocket pistols I think bores of half an inch are the exception rather than the rule.

"The Great Guns" by Harold L Peterson, has a chapter on howdah pistols.

You will also find that dragoon pistols, though severely plain are also of the same bore as yours, or just a little larger...roughly .76 calibre to take the standard musket ball.

Best Regards,
Richard.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dana,

Just did a real quick search; "Percussion Manstopper".

Found the following on one page at Google;

Rock Island sold a pair of W/Richards in .65" cal.

Pair at Lewis Drake by W'm and Jno Rigby, Dublin, .69 cal.

On GunStar, (UK) a Harcourt 4" barreled man -stopper in .72 cal.

Guns international, Pair of Westley Richards in .65 cal.

Jno Denner ...Wilson (Dublin) .78 cal.

at 1894 & B4,..w/Richards man stopper in .72 cal

Vintage live auctions,...Bingham man stopper in .76 cal.

All the best,
Richard.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dana,

Just did a real quick search; "Percussion Manstopper".

Wow! Thanks for providing the terms "Percussion Manstopper", and "Howdah Pistol" Richard (AKA Pukka Bundook). Information like that is exactly what I was looking for.

These photos are from a long ended auction at 1898andb-4.com Item 3648

http://www.1898andb-4.com/products.p...+HOWDAH+Pistol

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Dana,

Re. dating your pistols, I in no way meant to suggest you date them 'wrong' because of the type of hammers! I was merely saying that if it were not for the London address, I would have put them 10 or 15 years earlier than we 'know" they are, that's all.
It is this sort of thing that gives pause to many little points we may take for granted.
Have you dismounted the barrels? If so, the browning should show much better on the underside.
I am still certain that Dougall would never use any faux twist barrels. I have never even heard of such from this time period amongst better quality British gunmakers, and Dougall was right up there with the best.

To me, I see no reason to believe that these tubes are anything but good quality stub -iron twist barrels.
On the bottom flat, it is not uncommon to see stamped "Twisted stubs" or something similar denoting their make -up.

Pleased the Man-stopper search helped!
In this time period, when the Colt Navy and such were becoming popular, quite a few British officers were casting a jaundiced eye at the latter, as a protagonist could be filled with holes from such small calibre pistols, and Still chop the said officer down.
The solutions were large bore single or double pistols, that had at that time a name we can't use these days, but "man-stopper" holds the same meaning!

All the best,
Richard.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Have you dismounted the barrels? If so, the browning should show much better on the underside.

I am still certain that Dougall would never use any faux twist barrels. I have never even heard of such from this time period amongst better quality British gunmakers, and Dougall was right up there with the best.

To me, I see no reason to believe that these tubes are anything but good quality stub -iron twist barrels.
On the bottom flat, it is not uncommon to see stamped "Twisted stubs" or something similar denoting their make -up.

I'll take a closer look and maybe take some more photos.

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

The solutions were large bore single or double pistols, that had at that time a name we can't use these days, but "man-stopper" holds the same meaning!

Now you have to tell me the contemporary name. Please

[Pukka Bundook]

Dana,

I'll PM or email you!

Richard.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dana,

I'll PM or email you!

Richard.

I'll keep an eye out for that.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dana,

The style of the cocks on these pistols appears to me more in line with the 40's rather than '60's but that's all I can say!

Richard.

They sure do, put they are marked London, and Dougall doesn't seem to have been in London during that period. Should I put a date on them that I know is likely to be wrong?

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dougall was famous for his Lockfast action, and is a very well known maker.

Richard.

True. This information was in my first post

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

The barrels of your pistols are a stub iron twist, Nothing 'faux' about them.

Richard.

They just don't look right to me. I think they may be 'faux', but I don't know.

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I'm surprised you have had a hard time finding pistols of this calibre. They were never as common as say 16 or 14 bore, but do show up quite often.
I'd suggest looking at auction sales, or sale archives at places like Holts.

For a back-up in the hunting field or howdah, pistols of 12 to 10 bore are the norm rather than the exception.
My own pistols from this period are smaller bore than these, (16 bore, 20-bore or .62 calibre, and about 22 bore.) Apart from pocket pistols I think bores of half an inch are the exception rather than the rule.

"The Great Guns" by Harold L Peterson, has a chapter on howdah pistols.

You will also find that dragoon pistols, though severely plain are also of the same bore as yours, or just a little larger...roughly .76 calibre to take the standard musket ball.

Best Regards,
Richard.

I'll check Peterson's book. I've certainly seen small calibers, and a few large caliber muzzleloading pistols. Just never seen anything this large from this period and with this style, but I am willing to learn. And that is why I asked the question here.

Thanks again.