Strange yataghan! Russian?

ariel · 14th February 2016, 01:32 PM

I was wondering what it was doing here: nothing Russian, typically authentic example.

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I was wondering what it was doing here: nothing Russian, typically authentic example.

Do you know of another example like it, not the style but the design and quality of the metal work?

Rashka Vatnik · 14th February 2016, 04:18 PM

Not a Russian

ariel · 14th February 2016, 04:46 PM

I do not archive pics, so the answer is no, I do not.

It is a very classy work, but there are a lot of classy yataghans, many with European-influenced decoration ( chasing, mostly). General style, dolphin head, configuration of ears, sumptuous chasing, overall harmony and elegance... Ottoman :-)

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashka Vatnik

Not a Russian

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Ottoman :-)

Can anyone translate the museums description from post #12?

ariel · 14th February 2016, 10:22 PM

"Yataghan with scabbard. Asia Minor. Beginning of XIX century" . The rest is irrelevant: materials, dimension, provenance , date of accession ( 1919, so likely confiscated from the collection of poor Mr. Chertkov)

estcrh · 15th February 2016, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

"Yataghan with scabbard. Asia Minor. Beginning of XIX century" . The rest is irrelevant: materials, dimension, provenance , date of accession ( 1919, so likely confiscated from the collection of poor Mr. Chertkov)

It could be a diplomatic gift as Gavin mentioned, I personally have not seen this type of work on another example and I do have an extensive archive of images. Why would this be described as "Asia Minor" when another obviously Ottoman example from the same museum is described as being "Ottoman", what would the Russians consider Asian Minor to be?

ariel · 15th February 2016, 11:10 AM

No sense looking for some kind of deep meaning of "Asia Minor" vs. "Ottoman".
It is just a lack of uniformity, poor choice of words or faithful but thoughtless adherence to the terminology used on the original accession card.
Even more glaringly: it is described in Russian as a "Yataghan" while in English as a "Scimitar".

I have a pretty big book about Oriental sword collection from the Russian Ethnographic Museum with multiple misattributions, inaccuracies and just primitive mistakes . The publisher sesequently tried to explain them away simply by saying that : 1. They just blindly used the existing museum descriptions; 2. They had only a couple of months to prepare the catalog ; 3. Changing even the silliest error required lengthy bureaucratic process of approval by the museum bonzas; and 4. It is good enough for the masses.

In short, do not dwell on peculiarities of description. I do not remember who said that there is no need suspecting evil intent when just sheer stupidity would suffice:-)

15th February 2016, 11:10 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	No sense looking for some kind of deep meaning of "Asia Minor" vs. "Ottoman". It is just a lack of uniformity, poor choice of words or faithful but thoughtless adherence to the terminology used on the original accession card. Even more glaringly: it is described in Russian as a "Yataghan" while in English as a "Scimitar". I have a pretty big book about Oriental sword collection from the Russian Ethnographic Museum with multiple misattributions, inaccuracies and just primitive mistakes . The publisher sesequently tried to explain them away simply by saying that : 1. They just blindly used the existing museum descriptions; 2. They had only a couple of months to prepare the catalog ; 3. Changing even the silliest error required lengthy bureaucratic process of approval by the museum bonzas; and 4. It is good enough for the masses. In short, do not dwell on peculiarities of description. I do not remember who said that there is no need suspecting evil intent when just sheer stupidity would suffice:-) Last edited by ariel; 15th February 2016 at 11:31 AM.

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14th February 2016, 01:32 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I was wondering what it was doing here: nothing Russian, typically authentic example.

14th February 2016, 04:18 PM	#3
Rashka Vatnik Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 4	Not a Russian

14th February 2016, 04:46 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not archive pics, so the answer is no, I do not. It is a very classy work, but there are a lot of classy yataghans, many with European-influenced decoration ( chasing, mostly). General style, dolphin head, configuration of ears, sumptuous chasing, overall harmony and elegance... Ottoman :-)

14th February 2016, 10:22 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	"Yataghan with scabbard. Asia Minor. Beginning of XIX century" . The rest is irrelevant: materials, dimension, provenance , date of accession ( 1919, so likely confiscated from the collection of poor Mr. Chertkov)