Long yatagan

[Kubur]

They are also called Bashi Bouzouk or Bashi Bouzouk.
Mercenaries and warriors
It,s also the favourite insult of captain Haddock in Tintin...

[estcrh]

Thanks for the replies, while I have seen most of the old photos posted and a few similar T handled examples, what I was really looking for was to see one with a similar measurement. In the old photos you get an idea of length but no real details and the T handled one from Artzi has the same shape but it is obviously smaller.

I think a 40 inch/106.6cm sword is very long especially when not meant for mounted use. I am 6ft+ and have a long reach, this sword still seems unwieldy. The Zeybeck/Zeibek or Bashi Bouzouk/Bashi Bouzouk in the photos do not look very tall, what I was really interested in is the upper limit to the size of yatagan, I would like to verify that there are others of this size or was this just made extra long for a very tall Turk.

Below are various types of swords showing the size differences.

[Emanuel]

The threads I linked asked the same question regarding size. Longest ones posted were in the 90+ cm so your example 100+ seems the longest yet. Turkish ribbon also points to older manufacture. Any date on the blade?

[drac2k]

Great swords, wonderful pictures and I really like the long katar or is that a pata ?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Great swords, wonderful pictures and I really like the long katar or is that a pata ?

That is a good question which relates to the yatagan swords being discussed here. Just as the yatagan sword is related to the yatagan short sord/knife, the katar gauntlet sword is obviously related to the kater push dagger. The kater gauntlet sword is not as closely related to the pata as the kater in my opinion even if they are similar looking.

Here are three discriptions of these long gauntlet katar swords by three different dealers.

Very Good Very Long 18C. Hooded Kattar

A very old version of the famous Kattar (Katar). A development stage between the Pata, the long gauntlet sword and the Kattar, the short push dagger. Very long and narrow blade 38 inches long. The cross bars are shaped like small balls. The handle is protected with a steel hood terminating in a styled monster head shaped tip. 44 inches total length. Very good condition to age. Well patinated .

Deccan South Indian Hindu rapier type katar

A scarce long 'rapier' bladed katar from South India, Vijayanagar. The hilt fully protected by steel guards, and bars, the uppermost decorated with a monsters head finial. There are faint designs of chiselled engraving visible beneath the patination. The long mounts supporting a thick stout tapering blade, possibly of wootz steel. Dark original uncleaned patina overall. 16th/17th century.

A fine & rare Tanjore Pata
Late 16th or early 17th century
A very rare sword
Southern India

An exceptional and very rare Tanjore Pata sword.

This fine example measures 106cms long and has a blade length of 90cms from the tip to the guard.
The hooded guard is approx 18cms long when measures at the side bars and it stands 10cms tall from the base to the top of the demons nose.
There are large ball grips within the hood, secured to the side bars but spin freely on their inner pins.
Supporting the hood is a four bar arrangement being centrally secured to the hood by a spiral domed final and decorative bars running down to the side bars.
Atop of the hood is demon like face bearing its teeth.
The long blade has well defined beveled cutting edges and a strong medial ridge and hollow forged fullers running through to the 12cms long thickened armour piercing tip. It is supported at the hilt with a 24cms long decorative languet pinned in three places with the two upper pins mounted through brass spiral rosettes that resemble eyes.

A very fine, large and rare fighting sword from the Southern Indian states, dating from the 16th -17th centuries and in exceptional condition for its age.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

The threads I linked asked the same question regarding size. Longest ones posted were in the 90+ cm so your example 100+ seems the longest yet. Turkish ribbon also points to older manufacture. Any date on the blade?

Emanuel, there are two gold marking on one side of the blade.
I have posted your T handled yatagan here and another long one.

The bottom one is 35 inches or 89cm total length, blade length is 29 inches or 74 cm.

The middle one according to your measurements has a 28" (71cm) long blade and the top one of yours has a 29" (74cm) blade that is 1.3cm thick at the base.

[Emanuel]

Thank you.
This thread was also linked Any larger yataghan?

That thread showed 3 long yataghan
- 71cm blade
- 92cm overall
- 73cm blade
The last one you posted looks like an old one with the twist core and gold inlay cartouche. Oldest date I came across on mine was 1826 I believe. I can't make out anything in your cartouche.

Emanuel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Thank you.
This thread was also linked Any larger yataghan?

That thread showed 3 long yataghan
- 71cm blade
- 92cm overall
- 73cm blade
The last one you posted looks like an old one with the twist core and gold inlay cartouche. Oldest date I came across on mine was 1826 I believe. I can't make out anything in your cartouche.

Emanuel

Here is your yatagan with integral bolster and no T handle that is dated 1239/1826, Turkish ribbon construction, brass inlay, 24"(60cm) long blade and 1cm thick.

[estcrh]

Overall length 92 cm.

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I think a 40 inch/106.6cm sword is very long especially when not meant for mounted use. I am 6ft+ and have a long reach, this sword still seems unwieldy.

How heavy is it?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

How heavy is it?

Timo, it weighs about 1.5lb / .68kg

[Timo Nieminen]

I haven't yet met a sword of less than 700g that I felt was unwieldy. Not an unusual length for an infantry sword.

That said, a very light-hilted sword (which some would say "blade-heavy" instead) will feel different. Differently-wieldy, at least. (I feel this with my shorter (27" blade) and lighter (400g) yatagan.)

I wonder exactly what role the ears play when you're moving it around at speed (note to self: swing my yatagan around at speed and see).

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

I haven't yet met a sword of less than 700g that I felt was unwieldy. Not an unusual length for an infantry sword.

That said, a very light-hilted sword (which some would say "blade-heavy" instead) will feel different. Differently-wieldy, at least. (I feel this with my shorter (27" blade) and lighter (400g) yatagan.)

I wonder exactly what role the ears play when you're moving it around at speed (note to self: swing my yatagan around at speed and see).

I am just used to shorter swords, this particular yatagan when held with my arm fully extended has a reach of around 5 ft, I am sure there was a technique behind its use. Maybe European infantry swords had a similar length but it is unusual for most 19th century Indo-Persian and Japanese swords to be this long I think. Seeing that the zeybek were an experienced military force I can not believe that they would choose to use a sword that was not suitable for fighting and was just for looks/intimidation etc.

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I am just used to shorter swords, this particular yatagan when held with my arm fully extended has reach of around 5 ft, I am sure there was a technique behind its use. Maybe European infantry swords had a similar length but it is unusual for most 19th century Indo-Persian and Japanese swords to be this long I think. Seeing that the zeybek were an experienced military force I can not believe that they would choose to use a sword that was not suitable for fighting and was just for looks/intimidation etc.

32-33" of blade is common for British infantry swords, and some other countries issued similar. At the same time, 35-36" might be seen on cavalry swords.

Moving away from military swords, you can find rapiers where the blade alone exceeds the total length of your yatagan. Now those would be unwieldy in the cut (but would also weight twice as much as your yatagan, as well as being longer).

About 95cm total length looks typical for Persian shamshirs, so not that different. Also not too hard to find Indian swords of similar length (e.g., khandas and tulwars) but these are perhaps longer than usual for the types (but some types were often quite a bit longer, e.g., firangi, pata). You might not call those infantry swords, but they were used on foot.

As for technique, try this:

Start with the hilt back, near your shoulder. Hold the sword with a fairly relaxed grip. Elbow downwards, forearm approximately vertical. Then push the sword forwards. Don't make a big effort to swing the sword. Put a little effort into swinging it, and a lot of effort into just moving it forwards. As your arm approached full extension, your hand will slow down, and the hilt will slow down. Let the sword pivot about where the ears are against your hand, and its forward speed will convert into a fast rotation into the target. Maybe as the blade is about to hit the target, you should tighten your grip on the hilt and help push the blade into the target. After hitting the target, pull down on the ears, draw-cutting across the target.