European blades in India

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

I don't know. Everyone is speculating and I began the same.

Taking an approach grounded in extant examples is never a bad thing and worth pursuing. I hope you can take the time to put some numbers together. I for one always enjoy reading primary research.

However, beyond the pure figures of European and none European blades it is necessary to consider factors such as:

a) region

b) the European trade links in place within that region

c) Blade production in the region which could influence the potential market for European imports

d) Political relationships with European trade partners within that region

And of course a host of other factors. I really dislike the sort of generalization such as "what the Indians preferred" given the size of the India not just in population but diversity. A question of the type proposed at the start of this thread requires a certain level of nuance.

Certainly I and I would hope the majority of readers and participants of this thread, advocate a grounded study of extant examples over the single, anecdote that started this thread. Although certainly using period accounts as supportive material.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Very good Iain, but there is another thing which should be taken up as well, and that is, that many blades were used for generations due to family threads - very important to them.

[ariel]

Iain and Jens,

You put your collective finger right on the proverbial button: work of that sort requires solid acquaintance with principles of methodology of scientific analysis. Without it people can describe material objects, but are incapable of formulating answerable questions, interpreting existing information , analyzing their own data and reaching defensible conclusions.

[estcrh]

If you have not already read this essay you should, it is from the book titled "Sultans of the South: Arts of India's Deccan Courts, 1323-1687" By Navina Najat Haidar, Marika Sardar, 2011.

Between the 14th and the 17th century, the Deccan plateau of south-central India was home to a series of important and highly cultured Muslim courts. Subtly blending elements from Iran, West Asia, southern India, and northern India, the arts produced under these sultanates are markedly different from those of the rest of India and especially from those produced under Mughal patronage. This publication, a result of a 2008 symposium held at The Metropolitan Museum of Art, investigates the arts of Deccan and the unique output in the fields of painting, literature, architecture, arms, textiles, and carpet.

"Swords in the Deccan in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries: their manufacture and the influence of European imports" by Robert Elgood.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iW...page&q&f=false

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by estcrh

If you have not already read this essay you should, it is from the book titled "Sultans of the South: Arts of India's Deccan Courts, 1323-1687" By Navina Najat Haidar, Marika Sardar, 2011.



"Swords in the Deccan in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries: their manufacture and the influence of European imports" by Robert Elgood.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iW...page&q&f=false

Estcrh, many thanks! Very good article. The real research. I admit everything that was said there :-)

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Estcrh, many thanks! Very good article. The real research. I admit everything that was said there :-)

Yes, many interesting facts and quotes, how about this one.

[ariel]

Estcrh:

Many thanks for the article. Finally, we have a well-researched review for our information and education. No more fantasies, reliances on "personal logic", poorly translated citations of citations and the rest of pseudo-scientific junk. This article neatly resolves all issues raised in this discussion.


I was unaware of this article and wish to express my gratitude to you.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by estcrh

If you have not already read this essay you should, it is from the book titled "Sultans of the South: Arts of India's Deccan Courts, 1323-1687" By Navina Najat Haidar, Marika Sardar, 2011.



"Swords in the Deccan in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries: their manufacture and the influence of European imports" by Robert Elgood.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iW...page&q&f=false

Great link, great info. Thank you so much for sharing.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by estcrh

If you have not already read this essay you should, it is from the book titled Sultans of the South: Arts of India's Deccan Courts, 1323-1687 By Navina Najat Haidar, Marika Sardar, 2011.



"Swords in the Deccan in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries: their manufacture and the influence of European imports" by Robert Elgood.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iW...page&q&f=false

I was lucky enough to see that exhibit when it was at the Met. I would highly recommend that book on a number of different levels above and beyond just the topic at hand here. I know museum books can be expensive years after the exhibit, and I have no idea about the availability of this one, but if you have any interest in Indian arms, especially South Indian, it will be a terrific reference.