Turkish Shamshir

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Any written/printed reference (right or wrong) that helps explain why somone may have certain views on the topic of saif.

Since you have Elgoods book can you verify the quote I posted, does he have anything else to say on the subject ?

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

I am told that particular quote on the saif may be around page 10.

[Miguel]

WOW, When I posted this thread I never dreamed it would develop as it has. I am only a simple collector who wished confirmation of the sword which was answered in the first couple of replies, amazing how the subject changes but very interesting if not somewhat confusing for someone with only a little knowledge like me. This is what I like about this forum I learn something every time I log on.
I googled all the sword type names i.e. Kilij, Saif and Shamshir etc. to seek clarification but I can tell you that every thing contained in the thread could be found. I think that. for myself, I am better sticking to the name the sword conjures up in my mind otherwise it becomes to confusing.
Thank you everyone for your comments and time.
Regards
Miguel
ps Can anyone translate the blade stamp.

[Kubur]

Hi Miguel,

One very similar, I would say 1850ties, probably from an officer in the artillery.
have a look at the beautiful Persian blade!

Best,
Kubur

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Miguel,

One very similar, I would say 1850ties, probably from an officer in the artillery.
have a look at the beautiful Persian blade!

Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur, Thanks for sharing this sword it is a beauty. I always have a problem with the patterns different techniques produce on the blade surface, impaired vision problems, and would be grateful if you would tell me if the pattern on your blade is Damascus or Wootz or other.
Best regards
Miguel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Miguel,

One very similar, I would say 1850ties, probably from an officer in the artillery.
have a look at the beautiful Persian blade!

Best,
Kubur

I was thinking of the same sword, here are a couple different images that may show the damascus blade a little better.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I was thinking of the same sword, here are a couple different images that may show the damascus blade a little better.

Absolutely Wonderful sword, what a beautiful blade.
Regards
Miguel

[O. Baskurt]

about the stamp it is maker's insignia i guess one answer i get is it is written "Muhammed or Mehmet" in the middle of stamp but of course they said it is hard to read can you maybe provide a better photo with 90 degree angle to it ?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I will, do you have the page number? Or I have to look at the whole chapter?
I suggest to read also Alexander and Zaki.

Kuber, any luck finding that quote in Elgoods book? It should be on or near page 10 from what I was told.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Kuber, any luck finding that quote in Elgoods book? It should be on or near page 10 from what I was told.

Hi,
yes the chapter on the swords starts page 10.
But there are a lot of things. What are you looking for exactly??
Best,

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi,
yes the chapter on the swords starts page 10.
But there are a lot of things. What are you looking for exactly??
Best,

Can you verify if this quote was correctly copied and are there any other brief mentions of saif? Thanks!

The curved sword or sabre, known as a saif was usually locally made and derived from Persia from where it was imported or from Egypt, Iraq and Syria. These countries imitated the Persian blade form and adopted the technology.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Can you verify if this quote was correctly copied and are there any other brief mentions of saif? Thanks!

Hi,
Sorry for the dealy that's correct and its page 10.
Then he talks about the nimcha. But this story of saif and shamshir is much more complicated. For me the sabre is something from the East, coming to Middle East with the Moghols at the end of the 13th c.
best,
Kubur

[Kubur]

Hi Miguel,
Here is mine, less sexy than yours but still Ottoman end of 19th or very early 20th c.
Best Kubur

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Miguel,
Here is mine, less sexy than yours but still Ottoman end of 19th or very early 20th c.
Best Kubur

Kuber, a nice and rare example, the end of an era, yours must be close to the time period of the transition to a more European military sword.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi,
Sorry for the dealy that's correct and its page 10.
Then he talks about the nimcha. But this story of saif and shamshir is much more complicated. For me the sabre is something from the East, coming to Middle East with the Moghols at the end of the 13th c.
best,
Kubur

Thanks Kuber, there is a lot of conflicting references on saif, hard to tell which is correct. As for the introduction of curved swords here is a reference.

Mamluk Costume: A Survey, Leo Ary Mayer, 1952.