Pirate swords and weapons

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...including a tin syringe that probably held mercury to stave off syphilis (I won't go into horrid details about where the syringe was actually inserted!). ...

you know that thing in your head that keeps you from saying things?
mine is damaged

you'd be surprised what can fit. i had a bladder stone a few years ago, during the diganostic phase, they stick a telephone pole with a TV camera on the end up the same place and you can see the little devil on a tv screen. they squirt a local anesthetic in 1st tho. rather unusual sensation.

later, they use a slightly larger version when they crunch up the stone with a laser & yank the pieces out. thankfully under general anesthethesia so you don't know what horrors are going on down there, at least until you wake up & take your first red wee.

p.s. - the initial telephone pole was probably about the thickness of a pencil.

[Jim McDougall]

Indeed, it has been a most phenomenal realization in the most recent studies of these pirates, Blackbeard in particular, that the romanticized notions are very different than what they were really like.

Blackbeard, and probably a number of his crew were suffering from a number of STD's from their depredations, with Mr. Beard having been quite the womanizer possibly the most prevalent. His actions in these last days sought more than treasure..medicine.....and these horrendous tools and 'medicines' were his primary goal .

The Queen Annes Revenge as has been discussed has been mostly recognized as the wreck there in this location, however as always thee is some skepticism. In the early days after its discovery, I developed a line of communication with one of the divers, and of course my main objective was to find swords. It became a long standing gag between us that they kept finding cannon, but no swords. Of course, as the ship was abandoned, the prospects for anything as portable as a sword being found were negligible.
I do remember in later years, the 'politics' in the project became quite an issue, and my contact left the project.

It is always unfortunate that those of us who find vicarious adventure and historical excitement in these finds often end up disappointed as the usual traits of such things are tainted by commercialism and other circumstances which become necessary to support them. Still, we hold dearly to whatever measure of truth and reality can be preserved amidst the flotsam.

[M ELEY]

Amen, Jim, to controversy when it comes to wreck diving, claims on who owns it, authenticity. Glad to hear from you, Jim. You have a PM-

[kronckew]

Things come back to haunt you. My earlier page 1 post of a brass gripped pirate sword Jim thought might be Chinese is sort of confirmed. I'll post it in a new thread.

[David R]

A genuine and accredited Pirate sword I have, and one of the true prizes of my collection. (original vendors pic).

[werecow]

Originally Posted by David R

A genuine and accredited Pirate sword I have, and one of the true prizes of my collection. (original vendors pic).

Nice beladah belabang / parang nabur... I like this blade type. Reminds me of the Michiel de Ruyter nimcha.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David R

A genuine and accredited Pirate sword I have, and one of the true prizes of my collection. (original vendors pic).

This was a fantastic thread!!! and so good to see again.
I had not recalled these parang nabur, which were of course quite probably used in 'the pirate round' as they were distinctly of cutlass type.

Can you say more on provenance and proven pirate assoc?

Well understand this being a prize in any collection!!

[David]

Originally Posted by David R

A genuine and accredited Pirate sword I have, and one of the true prizes of my collection. (original vendors pic).

Indeed a lovely beladah belabang and i understand why you prize it. But what makes it an accredited "Pirate Sword". Accredited by whom. Do we have actual historical references pointed to the use of these swords by pirates in the region. I ask not to be confrontational, but because i would like to know.

[Jim McDougall]

The 'pirate' trope as applied to most edged weapons is of course typically apocryphal. Pirates were notoriously poor record keepers, and there were no 'regulation' weapons (just 'guidelines'

Naturally we need to also specify 'which' pirates we are considering for association with a certain weapon, or indeed 'form' of weapon. If they were 'Caribbean' region, it is most unlikely that these Asian weapons would be found, unless an anomaly brought in by someone as a souvenir or trophy from those Asian areas.

The woodcut illustrations well known in popular culture from the well known pirate tales are of course, not particularly likely to be accurate.
I am still fond of the popular pirate tales, but also of learning more on just how much is fact and how much is fiction.
The thing is, while we find that much of this lore is well embellished and not necessarily accurate, yet often we find fascinating elements which are sometimes even more exciting that the original story.

I agree, we should strive for references which support the use of a certain weapon or form in a 'pirate' context, while of course allowing ourselves the joy of thinking,
"maybe, just maybe, it might have been' .
In our speaking openly on the weapon, that is the manner we should view it, until hopefully one day, some obscure evidence is revealed that can empirically prove its provenance or use as surmised.
I have been fortunate to have had numbers of weapons for decades which I stubbornly held onto, in which that very thing occurred.

[kai]

Indeed a lovely beladah belabang and i understand why you prize it. But what makes it an accredited "Pirate Sword". Accredited by whom. Do we have actual historical references pointed to the use of these swords by pirates in the region. I ask not to be confrontational, but because i would like to know.

Banjarmasin was a very busy trade port. In contrast to London, I'm not aware of any sponsorship for pirate-like activities by the local nobility...

Actually, the red beladah belabang (stained with "dragon blood") could well be considered a regulation weapon as it was worn by the outer perimeter palace guards.

The shape of the (by western standards short) blade and the adopted hand guard seem to fit the western notion of a pirate sword quite well and arguably should also work well in a melee on board of a ship. I haven't seen any historical account confirming "naval" use though.

Actually, I have to plead guilty myself: When my son was 4 or 5 years old and asked me to show a pirate sword, I pulled out my BB as the most suitable piece from my collection. A reproduction crafted from cardboard/tape/paint served its purpose perfectly...

Regards,
Kai

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by David

Indeed a lovely beladah belabang and i understand why you prize it. But what makes it an accredited "Pirate Sword". Accredited by whom. Do we have actual historical references pointed to the use of these swords by pirates in the region. I ask not to be confrontational, but because i would like to know.

The early Borneo expeditions (early 1800's, just after the VOC had been abolished), had as goals of occupying Borneo:
1: Confirming the Dutch flag and offering protection to sovereigns who requested it;
2: Subdue sea plunder by pirates, promote trade, and give peace and tranquility to the many regions where robbers and murderers beset weak nations with calamities.
3: Collect moderate taxes to provide revenue for the government and subsistence for the subjects.

It is point two, mentioned above we have to take in account.
The coastal areas of Borneo where a hotbed of pirates and piracy.
As we know, the beladah belabangs where manufactured (made) in South Borneo, the Bandjemasin area, to be specific in Negara. In Bandjermasin a lot of trade was going on! And there sure were some pirates trading or selling their trophies.

The attached photos give some food for thought:-)

One photo had been made in 1894/1895 by Schadee in the Landak area (NW Borneo). You see a bunch of lovely(?) people, with on the right a man wearing a Beladah Belabang. (Also notice the sundang on the left).

The other photo is a photo of the online database of the Scheepvaartmuseum, collectionnumber S.4543, pirate sword 1825-1850.
(mention the BB blade)...

There is also an old style Beladah Belabang in the Bronbeek collection known, captured from a pirate around 1850, during a raid against piracy in the seas south of the Philipines. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to place a photo here, which I have to ask first.