Odd Sword

[fernando]

I was conculting my books in order to establish some points referring to a large XIII century originated convent that exits in the town next to mine and, when i saw the illumination of the first page of the charter given to the convent by King Dom Manuel in 1516, i noticed this A with a funny top ... but with a sraight crossbar. It seems as we had part of this fashion over here .


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[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by fernando

I was conculting my books in order to establish some points referring to a large XIII century originated convent that exits in the town next to mine and, when i saw the illumination of the first page of the charter given to the convent by King Dom Manuel in 1516, i noticed this A with a funny top ... but with a sraight crossbar. It seems as we had part of this fashion over here .


.

Certainly interesting since I believe we are looking at a Portuguese sword....despite the straight and not Vee shaped crossbar. The Majescule A form seems widespread.
At http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...0&page=2&pp=30 there is a dated and similar Majiscule A though again with a straight top...and straight bar at #31...with the 1519 date clearly shown and noted....and a slightly different date on the same A at #34.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see..

http://www.gustavianum.uu.se/digital...ord-blades.pdf

....where the paper shows the variety of potential combinations; for example a mixed Latin, Roman, Greek puzzle with some letters reversed or upturned. The combination is not only illogical but randomly done and could even be at the discretion of the owner or maker and be loaded therefor with the possibility of a mistake; deliberate or otherwise. It is perhaps for this reason that museums have put out a general distress call through the media in an attempt to crack the codes...which aren't codes at all...since they are not logical.

The codebreaker thus has a number of codebooks to run with including all of the usual alphabets ....runes ...religious books... and sayings of the day...somewhere around the 13th Century. In addition code may also mean Talismanic numerical progression so the ability to reckon on that peculiar mathematical expertise is vital.

It is important that ethnographic enthusiasts and researchers view how these shorthand devices stepped from the medieval period into the modern era on European blades. (but don't write in ...I know there are some on Eastern blades as well)...I should say mainly on European blades!

What I find amazing still is the habit or tradition many centuries ago of casting ones favourite sword into the deepest pool..a favoured way, perhaps, of returning ones sword to the underworld as was the famous mythical sword in the legendary Excalibur.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On revisiting this problem. It seems this puzzle may be around for a very long time, hence, a brief look at https://linguisticator.com/a-medieva...d-inscription/ could be useful. Not only could the letters be a mixture of several languages but it could be read from the right or left...No one knows.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[Victrix]

The symbols on the blade don't look like West European letters of the alphabet to me at all. Neither does it look like Hebrew. Could it be Ge'ez? Most likely they are talismanic symbols meant to bring luck to the user and may not necessarily mean anything but are based in superstitious beliefs. The cross as part of the decorations suggests the blade is originally from a Christian country. I have seen hussar sabres with these talismanic symbols and haven't felt tempted to try to interpret them. Some of these sabres may have been made by gypsies and could even be marked with Roma symbols.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Victrix

The symbols on the blade don't look like West European letters of the alphabet to me at all. Neither does it look like Hebrew. Could it be Ge'ez? Most likely they are talismanic symbols meant to bring luck to the user and may not necessarily mean anything but are based in superstitious beliefs. The cross as part of the decorations suggests the blade is originally from a Christian country. I have seen hussar sabres with these talismanic symbols and haven't felt tempted to try to interpret them. Some of these sabres may have been made by gypsies and could even be marked with Roma symbols.

Salaams Victrix, Whilst to some it may seem obvious that a cross implies a religious context however on many ancient weapons fished from lakes and rivers across Europe the cross is the only obvious recognisable coded inscription amongst often a line of unrecognisable capitals described as feudal religious shorthand !!...(of no known origin). For a balanced view of this please see http://blog.world-mysteries.com/stra...usaders-sword/ and note how the author has done just as you suggest and has focussed on the cross format... This is usually the Jerusalam Cross with tee shaped ends. Where a pommel exists there may be an etched similar cross done after the shock of battle by the owner..And so the cross is something we can be safely confident about...the rest is as yet undiscovered however...Note that letters do not have to be from the same alphabet !! and they may be numbers.

On further reflection I note that the cross on the project sword is not actually the Jerusalem Cross but a variant ... The Forked Cross. It may illustrate a similar provenance and is anyway another of the heraldic crosses..

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, we crossed posts!!! but spot on in reading yours!!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

To revise what we have ~ and welcome Jim on our crossing posts!!!

There appears to be two Majescule A forms one at each end of the line . Are the letters between the A's a date? It is tempting to suggest as I did at #88 earlier that the Majiscule A illustrates Augsberg.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Victrix, Whilst to some it may seem obvious that a cross implies a religious context however on many ancient weapons fished from lakes and rivers across Europe the cross is the only obvious recognisable coded inscription amongst often a line of unrecognisable capitals described as feudal religious shorthand !!...(of no known origin). For a balanced view of this please see http://blog.world-mysteries.com/stra...usaders-sword/ and note how the author has done just as you suggest and has focussed on the cross format... This is usually the Jerusalam Cross with tee shaped ends. Where a pommel exists there may be an etched similar cross done after the shock of battle by the owner..And so the cross is something we can be safely confident about...the rest is as yet undiscovered however...Note that letters do not have to be from the same alphabet !! and they may be numbers.

On further reflection I note that the cross on the project sword is not actually the Jerusalem Cross but a variant ... The Forked Cross. It may illustrate a similar provenance and is anyway another of the heraldic crosses..

Salaam Ibrahiim,

I love the links to documents you have posted on this thread concerning interpreting inscriptions on medieaval swords. It has been very interesting reading! Also I like the Arn movie which is mentioned in the last document. History is truly fascinating... The sword which you are investigating is clearly very different from the medieaval knight swords. If you are decoding something you obviously have to know what symbols you are dealing with, and this particular time period is tricky because of the popularity of occult superstitions (akin to Sufist mysticism?). That's why I wonder if it's worth the effort? Following your comments I did a quick search on the cross symbol and found this (see photo below) in Symbols: Encyclopedia of Western Signs and Ideograms by Carl G. Liungman. The symbols could even be linked to alchemy (!). Also, the Augsburg symbol you refer to is different to the symbol on the sword which has an asymmetric horizontal bar at the top (only on the left side).