Keris pamor

Jean · 21st August 2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Rather than focus on how good, bad, or indifferent the pamor is, I would suggest that garap should be given precedence in blade appraisal, with well executed pamor, if present, being a nice little extra.

Hello Alan,
This thread failed to raise much interest and the forum is very quiet these days may be due to the Holiday season.
Many kris collectors focus in priority on the visual pamor style and quality to the detriment of the garap of the blade which is less a spectacular or more subjective feature for some of us. And many antique blades have a poor garap (and pamor) due to the wear but remain attractive pieces.
Would you please try to define what constitutes a good garap versus a bad one and show us some examples? I could contribute with some blade specimens if required.
Regards
PS: In the second paragraph I would rather have said "poor pawakan" than "poor garap", sorry.

A. G. Maisey · 21st August 2015, 02:10 PM

Jean, I think this would be getting back to "what constitutes a good keris" thread --- which went on forever.

I'm not going to post any photos of examples of good workmanship (garap) because it is extremely rare to find that all elements of a keris blade have been done well. You might find that the sogokan in a blade is superb, but then you look at the greneng and it has been poorly done, or maybe just incorrectly interpreted, you can find ricikan done well, but in a blade that has really terrible pawakan (overall visual impression). Really terrible pawakan???? How do explain what is good pawakan to somebody who has no background at all in Javanese culture, and sees the world with different eyes to a Javanese person? In respect of the pawakan thing, I've just about given up trying because just when I think I've succeeded in getting the message across, the person I'm trying to help demonstrates that I have failed. Badly.

Maybe for an ordinary interested collector the best yardstick might be to stick with the type of standards that can be applied to all types of craft work, things like good clean lines, straight lines, parts of a circle, harmony, proportion. The "sure hand". Without getting too esoteric, sticking with these standards is going to give a positive result, even if that positive result is not 100% perfect.

However, you're dead right Jean:- the first thing that 99.9% of collectors see is the pamor, and that is very often what they fall in love with, no matter what the rest of the keris looks like.

You've used the word "subjective". In my experience the vast bulk of all keris collectors use subjective judgement in evaluating a keris, and since I am an advocate of the "if you like it, its a good keris for you" school, I reckon that subjective judgement is OK. Quite simply, not every keris interested person wants to spend the major part of his life in learning how to correctly evaluate an artifact from a foreign culture. Its more fun just to collect.

Jean · 21st August 2015, 07:14 PM

Hello Alan,
Thank you for your reply and I realize the extreme complexity of my question and that the garap and pawakan are two distinct features even if they may often go together.
Many kris collectors are deeply interested to learn how to evaluate a kris blade but few are willing to spend the time to study the javanese culture in detail first as this is very difficult and may be too late....
Regards

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21st August 2015, 02:10 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,053	Jean, I think this would be getting back to "what constitutes a good keris" thread --- which went on forever. I'm not going to post any photos of examples of good workmanship (garap) because it is extremely rare to find that all elements of a keris blade have been done well. You might find that the sogokan in a blade is superb, but then you look at the greneng and it has been poorly done, or maybe just incorrectly interpreted, you can find ricikan done well, but in a blade that has really terrible pawakan (overall visual impression). Really terrible pawakan???? How do explain what is good pawakan to somebody who has no background at all in Javanese culture, and sees the world with different eyes to a Javanese person? In respect of the pawakan thing, I've just about given up trying because just when I think I've succeeded in getting the message across, the person I'm trying to help demonstrates that I have failed. Badly. Maybe for an ordinary interested collector the best yardstick might be to stick with the type of standards that can be applied to all types of craft work, things like good clean lines, straight lines, parts of a circle, harmony, proportion. The "sure hand". Without getting too esoteric, sticking with these standards is going to give a positive result, even if that positive result is not 100% perfect. However, you're dead right Jean:- the first thing that 99.9% of collectors see is the pamor, and that is very often what they fall in love with, no matter what the rest of the keris looks like. You've used the word "subjective". In my experience the vast bulk of all keris collectors use subjective judgement in evaluating a keris, and since I am an advocate of the "if you like it, its a good keris for you" school, I reckon that subjective judgement is OK. Quite simply, not every keris interested person wants to spend the major part of his life in learning how to correctly evaluate an artifact from a foreign culture. Its more fun just to collect.

21st August 2015, 07:14 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you for your reply and I realize the extreme complexity of my question and that the garap and pawakan are two distinct features even if they may often go together. Many kris collectors are deeply interested to learn how to evaluate a kris blade but few are willing to spend the time to study the javanese culture in detail first as this is very difficult and may be too late.... Regards