Anglo-Indian army swords

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Jim mentioned in this thread a variety of British influences on Indian blades. Below are some examples of Indian blades and one Afghan one that borrow both from British characteristics/styles/makes that blade smiths sought to mimic, combined with hundreds of years old native influences.

Charles, those are some truly jaw dropping pieces! Thank you so much for posting them up here. Simply stunning!

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Chris, I cannot thank you enough for being the motivator in creating this thread as you have well initiated more activity in the study of the Indian tulwar concurrently on its own thread.

The pleasure is all mine. It is refreshing to be part of a forum which is so willing to freely share information for the greater benefit of all members.

Many thanks for pointing out the subtle stylistic differences on these tulwars. It is so important to note such clues, especially when dipping ones toe in an unfamiliar collecting area.

I have been in touch with Robert, and he has very graciously given me permission to reproduce his photographs and information here, which I shall do in due course. Robert is the very epitome of a true researcher, and his generous approach of freely sharing his discoveries and information is an inspiration to all.

Kind regards,

Chris

[CharlesS]

Jim,

Thanks for all the kind remarks. The MOLE blade is homogenous steel.

[A.alnakkas]

this one was in my collection. Blade and scabbard are wootz but dont think its Indian?

[sirupate]

Some fabulous swords and information arising through this fabulous thread

[A.alnakkas]

another one.

[mrcjgscott]

Jonathan Hopkins over on SFI once posted the following image and statement, which shows one of these curved 1796 style blades in use in 1911:

"The sword pictured in the 1911 Cavalry Training Indian Supplement looks remarkably like the P1796, but the blade appears to be narrower and without a hatchet point."

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

this one was in my collection. Blade and scabbard are wootz but dont think its Indian?

Hello A.alnakkas,

Many thanks for posting these examples. The first one you show looks very similar to some Imperial Russian swords I have seen. Does it carry and markings to the blade?

I have two similar to the second sword you show, but both with different crests to the grip. I presume they are for different Indian states. I shall take some photographs of my examples for comparison.

[mrcjgscott]

The following images are reproduced here by the kind permission of Robert Wilkinson Latham. Naturally all copyright belongs to Robert, and they are not to be reproduced without his permission.

The first images shows India Office "tulwar" blades and 1907 pattern bayonets being finished at Wilkinson's factory in Acton in 1915.

The second shows an Apprentice handing three bar hilts to a fitter, working on the bending and shaping machine in 1916.

The third shows a pattern photograph of the hilt of a P08 Indian cavalry troopers sword.

The fourth images shows pattern drawings for a three bar cavalry sword circa 1914.
Robert notes "I am sure that the so called Bengal, Paget etc patterns referred to blade type and hilts were different depending on the regiment, there being a variety of known but mainly unidentified hilt types. The most common is of course the 3 bar version. (When it comes to the maharaja's forces, this three bar hilt was often fitted with a medallion on the hilt for whatever state and there are of course regular cavalry variations.!!!!

Eventually the 3 bar hilt dominated circa 1914 when the India Store Depot produced a full size drawings (Ref 9470) and specification for the 3 bar hilted sword (Pattern 6480) which was designated Sword Tulwar Cavalry."

The final image shows a hilt detail of an Indian Cavalry sword. This type of walnut grip is peculiar to swords made for Indian service and others of the type have been associated with private purchase officers swords of the period.

Kind regards,

Chris

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Hello A.alnakkas,

Many thanks for posting these examples. The first one you show looks very similar to some Imperial Russian swords I have seen. Does it carry and markings to the blade?

I have two similar to the second sword you show, but both with different crests to the grip. I presume they are for different Indian states. I shall take some photographs of my examples for comparison.

hmmm, although the design is Russian I think its Persian. Qajar used Russian designed sabres as far as I know. It also had the Qajar crown on the hilt. Will annoy my friend and ask him to snap photos of it :-)

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

hmmm, although the design is Russian I think its Persian. Qajar used Russian designed sabres as far as I know. It also had the Qajar crown on the hilt. Will annoy my friend and ask him to snap photos of it :-)

Ahhh I see, that is certainly a new one on me, every day is a school day!

Further images would certainly be most enlightening, thank you!

[mrcjgscott]

Here are some images of the 1796 style officers sword I mentioned to Jim on the tulwar thread. This is one of my personal favourites, and it survived the cull of my collection, and several tempting offers from fellow enthusiasts!

Apologies for the photo quality, these are around 10 years old!

[Helleri]

What's up with the hinged guard on post #14 ?

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

this one was in my collection. Blade and scabbard are wootz but dont think its Indian?

Lofty,

Yours is Persian and early 20th century.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Chris,
I think I see two numbers on your hilt, the number '1' in the middle of the text, and '8' at the end of the text, but what the text inbetween says I don't know.

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Chris,
I think I see two numbers on your hilt, the number '1' in the middle of the text, and '8' at the end of the text, but what the text inbetween says I don't know.

Thank you Jens,

That is certainly more than I knew when I woke up this morning! I would imagine they are either a unit designation or possibly a rack number (perhaps both)

Kind regards,

Chris