Tulwar broadsword??

[Andy Davis]

Ah Jens, every edged weapon of any nationality interests me and its only now that I've tried to specialise in Indian items. Still at over 30 tulwars, I think I could claim to have an interest! Its just that I dont always expect my funds to be able to get the most spectacular...just the cheapest

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Andy,
I was surprised to see that you have over 30 tulwars, that is quite a lot, and I doubt that many, if any at all, on the forum can beat that.
Cheap or expensive weapons mostly have the same characteristics, and when you want to study the weapon as a weapon, it is these characteristics, which are of interest.

Hi Jim,
So you also took the decoration of the hilt into consideration – I should have known it. Yes it is interesting to see such a decoration on a hilt from the Sind area, but on the other hand, it may not have been there from the start, and weapons travelled a lot earlier. Foreign blades are not unusual on Indian weapons, but this one is rather unusual, but like you said, even blades without hilts travelled a long way in those days.

[RSWORD]

Let me toss out another theory to spark more discussion. Perhaps the migration is the opposite way. Instead of a German blade that one typically finds on Kaskara finding its way to India via known trade routes, why not an Indian hilt, or style of hilt, finding its way to N Africa. The circle motif is found on N African pieces, such as Berber swords. Perhaps this is a Kaskara whose owner utilized a hilt style obviously influenced by Indian hilts. We will probably not know in either case but I think one can hypothesize both scenarios.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jens,
Thank you so much for the response, and I agree with what you say about the diffusion of these weapons and thier elements, especially in India. I also very much like your notation on the decorative design of the hilt, which does recall the more ancient architectural designs that reflected more primitive fashioning of grips and hilts.

Rick,
I think that is outstanding thinking, and it would seem quite plausible as we have often noted that weapons diffusion may move in either direction between points of contact. Actually it has often been distinctly curious to me that with the obvious influences of certain Indian weapons in North Africa, and elsewhere for that matter, that the very recognizable tulwar hilt, to the best of my knowledge, is not found outside the Indian subcontinent.
While various Ottoman and Persian weapons are often found in the North African regions within the Muslim sphere, it seems that even in presentation or diplomatically inclined weapons,the tulwar hilt is not to be found.
I recall one sword I saw years ago with tulwar hilt and clearly a kaskara type blade much like this example, and was identified specifically as tulwar and with Indian provenance. I have also seen patas with these European blades as seen on kaskaras, even with much earlier blades, which seem to suggest that the movement of the blades to India, somehow did not encourage the movement of these hilts to Africa.
You have a very good point about the concentric circles presence in Berber motif also. This extremely ancient symbolism seems very well known within the perameters of folk religion and shamanism, and seem to exist in only slight variation in many cultures. I am unclear on the Berber versions though, do they appear typically on hilts, or blades, or both? It seems you have mentioned this Berber motif before, but I cant exactly recall the instance.

All best regards,
Jim

[RSWORD]

Hi Jim,

I have had two of those Berber swords over the years with the clipped blade style and handle with hole in the middle. On one example, the handle was covered in these circle motifs and in the other example, the scabbard had been stamped with these motifs.

As far as Tulwar hilts being found in Africa, I could understand why they may not be popular as we have had countless discussions about how do you grip one, were they made for small hands, etc etc and someone not familiar with the martial style may not have found a tulwar hilt to their liking. After giving more thought, I wonder if there was much of an Indian population in N Africa in the 19th century where perhaps an Indian working/living in N Africa decided to match up a Kaskara blade to a hilt they were more familiar with. I am glad you mentioned one other example of Tulwar hilted, Kaskara blade combo because there probably are not too many examples out there so it leaves us to hypothesize.(which I love to do and think it is part of the fun of our hobby!)

[Michael Blalock]

There was and still is a substantial Indian population along the coast of East Africa and a substantial trading colony at Aden in Yemen and at the Ethiopean port of Massawa since medievel times.

[Andy Davis]

I wonder why we have to guess!
In a culture that was well advanced enough to write and describe the activities of every day life, history and myth, I wonder why we have to speculate so much over "how the tulwar is held" or just why we have so much difficulty with identification.
It seems to be that we need a proper database, created only from items that do have a accutrate and tracable provinance. Likely to be through museums and the major private collections, from which we can then expand to theories on the other examples. I know im talking in an ideal world! I have European, military issue edged weapons, that nobody can identify either but the data available is far more precise.
Jens, thats exactly why I do have so many in my collection, the fact that I look for even the slightest variation and where my fasination remains. Actually its an addiction but I like to justify it.

By the way, I may have said this before. If anybody ever wants to consult my collection for serious research or general interest and finds their way to the North East of England, I'm always open to guests...with advanced warning etc