Bichoq? Or something else

DaveA · 6th June 2015, 03:33 AM

Thanks Ariel.

I know the Soviets confiscated many of these knives in usbekistan in an effort to stamp out local culture, and as a result the old ones are quite scarce. I have two other pichoq, one from Tashkent and one from Chust, good steel, but both more modern in style and unique in their own way. So my eye was tuned! Nevertheless, I have not seen this shape before and so I am glad for the feedback.

I'm fascinated by how this style is found in very similar form and name from N. Africa to the Balkans (bıçak) to Uzbekistan (pichoq) to India ( pichangatti).

Dave A

ariel · 6th June 2015, 12:02 PM

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Sancar · 6th June 2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan.

But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

Exactly; and since Baburid Mughals were also ethnic Turks, it is propable that pichangetti also have some Turkic origin in its etimology.

ariel · 6th June 2015, 08:19 PM

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Sancar · 7th June 2015, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin.

The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

Bıçak means "knife" in Turkish language, so it doesn't have to be a certain blade form connection. In the case of "pichangatti", it might only be the word that travelled. There are many such terms in Indian languages that migrated from Turkish and Persian languages.

In the case of Özbek "pichok", there is no confusion. It is the exact same word, just different pronounciation.

ariel · 7th June 2015, 11:28 PM

Fully agree with the latter.
As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.

Andreas · 8th June 2015, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Fully agree with the latter.
As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.

Pichangatti apparently means "hand knife" (Egerton). As the Tamil Word for knife is katti, the word pichangatti doesn't seem related to bıçak.
Andreas

6th June 2015, 03:33 AM	#1
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Thanks Ariel. I know the Soviets confiscated many of these knives in usbekistan in an effort to stamp out local culture, and as a result the old ones are quite scarce. I have two other pichoq, one from Tashkent and one from Chust, good steel, but both more modern in style and unique in their own way. So my eye was tuned! Nevertheless, I have not seen this shape before and so I am glad for the feedback. I'm fascinated by how this style is found in very similar form and name from N. Africa to the Balkans (bıçak) to Uzbekistan (pichoq) to India ( pichangatti). Dave A Last edited by DaveA; 6th June 2015 at 04:15 AM.

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6th June 2015, 12:02 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Bichaq and pichok , - simple: Uzbeks are Turks. Same mother language, with some phonetic and pronunciation variations. Turkish Kilij is Klych in Uzbekistan. But I do not know whether pichangatti is linguistically or ethnically related.

6th June 2015, 08:19 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My only problem with it is that pichangattis were from Coorg and often were carried in ensemble with Ayda Kattis. Both were characteristic of Mappila ( Mopla ), who were not of Turkish, but rather Arab ( Oman? Yemen?) origin. The pichangatti/pichok/bichaq connection is a very tempting one, but may be a bit more complex than a simple similarity of sounds.

7th June 2015, 11:28 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fully agree with the latter. As to the former.. Would love to believe that 's the case, but still have an uneasy feeling of uncertainty.