BASKET HILT FOR ID

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Cerjak, thank you so much for responding. I was wondering if these comments were of interest to you, and was hoping you might add your own thoughts of what the hilt might be. Perhaps if you might add any data on provenance of the piece and what context it might have been from, also it is always helpful to know what resources you used in your research.

As Mark has well explained, these kinds of hilts have as many variations as there were artisans creating them, and the theme of these pierced dots in striated fashion were as noted found on a number of Spanish colonial hilts of the 19th century.

I will add images of some examples which might illustrate what we are describing, but an exact match is unlikely as these were not fabricated using a pattern book, but artisans interpretations of known forms and functional elements using often 'recycled parts'. I have seen such pieces using old 18th century dragoon blades, three bar cavalry guards and briquette grips, among other examples.

Would be interested to hear your views.

Best regards,
Jim

Dear Jim
First of all I bought this hilt without any knowledge about is origin only because it my eyes it was an interesting hilt and with the information you have post here I have tried to find more ,so for my research I don’t have so much books but several books : Cameron and the encyclopedia from Claude Blair and av Norman ,also a lot of auction’s catalogues.But I have to say that most of the information are found in the forum with the help from the members like Mark and you did it for this hilt.
Again many thanks for your precious help !
Best
Jean-Luc

[Jim McDougall]

Jean Luc,
Actually the reason Mark and were so quickly attuned to this hilt is because we both share a passion for Spanish Colonial items, and this is a great example. While you might be limited in published resources, you have an incredibly astute and discerning eye for unique items (I recall the exceptional 'Casssignard' blade you found a couple of years ago).

I know I have seen this same type of 'curl' on another Spanish hilt years ago (I think it was one I had from Mexico), and the holes between lines on another, but I cannot yet find the pictures. As always the search for similar or close match will continue.
The forums and archives here are one of the most valuable resources we can have, and the collective knowledge shared by everyone who has specialty fields in discussions on these pages are what its all about.
Thank you again for sharing!

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

FOUND THEM!!
These are terrible quality, and had to use phone but hopefully they are legible enough to illustrate.

The guard with open bars is a form from Mexico often termed the round tang style espada (Adams, '85) however these clearly are mounted with standard tang dragoon blades. It seems the term 'gavilan' was used for them, but more on that cannot recall at moment.
The 'curl' I spoke of can be seen at the base of each bar. Also note the type of rivets/screws which seem regularly used on these types of hilts.

It would seem that rather than forged bars, this is more a pierced sheet steel basket but still recalling the general style.

The closed shell is the style we now attribute to South America for the provenanced mid 19th century example from Brazil. It is a sword I had with an English blade by Lyndon & Wignall (Joseph Lyndon & Wm Wignall, Minerva Works, 1828-1836).

As Mark and I noted, exact match for this spectrum of variations in these settings is pretty unlikely, but I think these examples support the attribution. In my opinion an outstanding example of the innovation and skill of Spanish Colonial artisans .









Here are the photos of the two forms of hilt.
The open hilt is with bar type guard from Mexico, the shellguard with striated lines and drilled holes is the Brazilian form espada.

[Oliver Pinchot]

A well-constructed and supported argument, Jim. Well done!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

A well-constructed and supported argument, Jim. Well done!

Thank you so much Oliver! I really appreciate that, and means a lot to hear.
All the best,
Jim

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

FOUND THEM!!
These are terrible quality, and had to use phone but hopefully they are legible enough to illustrate.

The guard with open bars is a form from Mexico often termed the round tang style espada (Adams, '85) however these clearly are mounted with standard tang dragoon blades. It seems the term 'gavilan' was used for them, but more on that cannot recall at moment.
The 'curl' I spoke of can be seen at the base of each bar. Also note the type of rivets/screws which seem regularly used on these types of hilts.

It would seem that rather than forged bars, this is more a pierced sheet steel basket but still recalling the general style.

The closed shell is the style we now attribute to South America for the provenanced mid 19th century example from Brazil. It is a sword I had with an English blade by Lyndon & Wignall (Joseph Lyndon & Wm Wignall, Minerva Works, 1828-1836).

As Mark and I noted, exact match for this spectrum of variations in these settings is pretty unlikely, but I think these examples support the attribution. In my opinion an outstanding example of the innovation and skill of Spanish Colonial artisans .









Here are the photos of the two forms of hilt.
The open hilt is with bar type guard from Mexico, the shellguard with striated lines and drilled holes is the Brazilian form espada.

Very interesting Jim !
Thank you for your contribution.
I will post in a new thread the picture from the rest of a pole arm I bought with this hilt I 'm wondering if it could have a link between this 2 parts of weapons.
Best
Jean-Luc