Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades

[ulfberth]

Hi Jim,

in auction 69 in Hermann Historica there was a late 16th century German riding sword with six moon stamps on the ricasso, though not facing away from each other, this provides a good idea of the shape and dimensions of old European type of stamps.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

[ulfberth]

and this one with the moons faced away from each other, discribed as:
A German gold-plated rapier circa 1580
Double-edged thrusting blade of flattened hexagonal section. Both sides signed "CLEMENS STAM" within the double fullers and struck with six marks on the ricasso.

[kronckew]

single moon engraving:

Austro-Hungarian Hussar Sabre of General Andreas Hadik c.1760

[Iain]

Good idea to split this out into another topic Jim. As others have noted these moon stamps are derived from engraving styles which have existed for centuries. Probably the closest to a transitional piece I ever saw was this nice single fuller astral/talisman blade with paired engraved crescents.

I'm also including a Katzbalger with a stamped variation of the crescent. But it's a singular.

Regarding the application of the marks themselves, my understanding is that these would be stamped hot. Meaning that in a non-European context this would be not easy to achieve without destroying the temper of the blade. Briggs is a great source, but he could well have simply got it wrong.

To be clear, the example of mine you posted is 100% produced in Europe, it is an older example and from the 18th century I am 99% sure.

[Jim McDougall]

Ulfberth, Kronkew and Iain, thank you so very much guys!!!!

Ufberth, the multiple moons are exactly the concept I have been trying to learn more on. As often noted, the crescents are typically singular, but seen in multiples like this begs many questions.

I have seen cases where kings head, for example as used by Wundes, appear in as many as four or five strikes. It recalls the groupings of stamps applied with silver hallmarking and seems to allude to that sort of 'quality' connotation.
In cases where such a mark, with more pragmatic use such as guild or compliance stamps has become more a motif, such as linear use of the sickle or eyelash marks, it may be perceived as multiplication of power or quality (i.e. more means better).

Speaking of sickle marks, these are another case where what was apparantly a guild type mark associated with Genoa, yet other North Italian centers used similar marks in other configurations and groupings with other marks. Like the moons, running wolf and many other marks were purloined by other centers in many other countries and cultures.

Kronckew, excellent example of the cosmological motif which became popular on blades in the 17th through 18th centuries in Europe. These images became the prototypes for various native interpretations because of the prolific import of trade blades bearing these.

Iain, great points as always, and good info on the stamping of the blades.
I have always been admittedly puzzled on this as there are so many cases of swords and weapons being cold stamped with arsenal marks etc. I was never clear at how this could be accomplished with hard steel.
Briggs does note an analogy on the dukari marks being stamped on an already thuluth covered blade, naturally suggesting these were placed by native artisans. In other references it is noted that the native smiths were using stamps which over time became damaged and suggesting this as cause of degenerating images on later examples

As we have discussed, it certainly seems likely that Solingen, in their phenomenal marketing prowess, might have tailored their blades, including markings, to their clientele. We already know this factually with the 'Spanish motto' blades of the 18th c.; the 'Sahagum' of 17th and 18th to low countries of the Continent; and of course..the 'Andrea Ferara blades to Scotland of the 17th and 18th.
With the decline of markets and demand at the end of the Franco-Prussian war with an overbuilt industry in Solingen for blades, they turned to other potential markets in colonial spheres. It seems we have found that blades were indeed produced for North Africa in this 19th century period and later but we have not yet found definitive data proving so, nor if these were stamped with dukari as discussed.

If these blades were indeed stamped with these marks in Solingen, whether 19th century, or as suggested in the 18th it would be key information. Naturally, if the 18th century date for these was the case, then it would explain just how this unique configuration of even distorted moons became situated in Saharan context. It would also explain these several anomalies in Scottish basket hilts with these dramatically uncharacteristic blades and marks as we are discussing. It would also suggest that the volume of these strategically marked blades for North African consumption were thus shipped away from Europe, explaining the notable absence of examples in European context.

A lot to be considered!!! but well on the track !

[ulfberth]

Here is another one German from the beginning of the 17th century.
It seems that famous blade makers also used the moon mark as a quality stamp, amongst other stamps.
Described as: A military rapier, Munich, circa 1610/20

A thrusting blade of flattened hexagonal section struck on both sides with Wolfgang Standler's crescent moon mark on the ricasso

Kind regards

Ulfberth

[kronckew]

new poster just posted links to another austro hungarian blade with similar markings to the one i posted, HERE see the link for the 1765 infantry hanger.