A paradise hilt

Battara · 12th December 2005, 07:23 AM

Yannis, please accept my apologies for coming in late to this discussion (very ill the whole week

).

The silver inlay work is wonderful and is a rarer type used. Most of the time the softer metal is made flush with the harder metal. In India (and possibly Turkey), however, sometimes the bottom parts of the metal pieces are inlaid into the harder metal with the rest sitting on top to be worked and detailed (the bottom keeping it locked in place). This is how the silver birds and vines, and copper leaves were done with such exquisite detail as the artist then used steel tools to do the finer work of stamping and engraving.

The grapes - can be most likely either a lead based pewter or silver with very high amount of copper (70-75% silver and 30-25% copper) which tends to grey silver (coin silver is 80% silver and roughly 20% copper - much greyer and darker than sterling, which is 90% silver and 10%copper). I doubt it is a pure zinc due to the amount of grey in the grapes (zinc being more blue than grey). Only a jeweler can test the metal to be absolutely sure of metal content. In any case, you may want to wash your hands after you handle this beautiful piece just in case the grapes are lead based pewter - lead can be absorbed directly into the skin!

Another note about the grapes: The motif is not unknown in the Ottoman courts. Not only was it used in some dress and other decorative arts, but there is reference found in the Qur'an, though I forget where and can't even give the Sura at this time. I believe the reference is about Paradise. With this in mind, in book The Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art (volume 21, pages 116-117) there is an Ottoman yataghan pictured that is profusly adorned with grape and grape leaf motif all over the beautiful silver scabbard and even all along the middle strap of the hilt. The grape leaves are detailed in silver and the grapes are seed pearls. An amazing puppy and one which came to mind when I saw your piece.

I do enjoy the work, craftsmanship, and contrast of colored metals used. You have a rare treasure there as far as I am concerned. Thank you for sharing this with us Yannis.

Yannis · 12th December 2005, 02:53 PM

Battara
Thank you for your help. Your knowledge about materials and craftsmanship is an asset in this forum. The pictures here are before cleaning the dagger. After the cleaning all the decoration except the grapes are shiny. If they were of silver mixture should be shiny too. Also there is a lot of blue in the grapes, so zinc is still possible. But as you say only after a test I will be sure.
I dont have the book you mention. I wish I could see this yataghan. You and Ariel are right about grapes in Islamic tradition. It was my mistake.

Battara · 13th December 2005, 12:55 AM

You are very kind, Yannis. My pleasure to be of service. I have only one request, and that is would you post pictures of your newely cleaned puppy for us?

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12th December 2005, 07:23 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Yannis, please accept my apologies for coming in late to this discussion (very ill the whole week ). The silver inlay work is wonderful and is a rarer type used. Most of the time the softer metal is made flush with the harder metal. In India (and possibly Turkey), however, sometimes the bottom parts of the metal pieces are inlaid into the harder metal with the rest sitting on top to be worked and detailed (the bottom keeping it locked in place). This is how the silver birds and vines, and copper leaves were done with such exquisite detail as the artist then used steel tools to do the finer work of stamping and engraving. The grapes - can be most likely either a lead based pewter or silver with very high amount of copper (70-75% silver and 30-25% copper) which tends to grey silver (coin silver is 80% silver and roughly 20% copper - much greyer and darker than sterling, which is 90% silver and 10%copper). I doubt it is a pure zinc due to the amount of grey in the grapes (zinc being more blue than grey). Only a jeweler can test the metal to be absolutely sure of metal content. In any case, you may want to wash your hands after you handle this beautiful piece just in case the grapes are lead based pewter - lead can be absorbed directly into the skin! Another note about the grapes: The motif is not unknown in the Ottoman courts. Not only was it used in some dress and other decorative arts, but there is reference found in the Qur'an, though I forget where and can't even give the Sura at this time. I believe the reference is about Paradise. With this in mind, in book The Nasser D. Khalili Collection of Islamic Art (volume 21, pages 116-117) there is an Ottoman yataghan pictured that is profusly adorned with grape and grape leaf motif all over the beautiful silver scabbard and even all along the middle strap of the hilt. The grape leaves are detailed in silver and the grapes are seed pearls. An amazing puppy and one which came to mind when I saw your piece. I do enjoy the work, craftsmanship, and contrast of colored metals used. You have a rare treasure there as far as I am concerned. Thank you for sharing this with us Yannis.

12th December 2005, 02:53 PM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Battara Thank you for your help. Your knowledge about materials and craftsmanship is an asset in this forum. The pictures here are before cleaning the dagger. After the cleaning all the decoration except the grapes are shiny. If they were of silver mixture should be shiny too. Also there is a lot of blue in the grapes, so zinc is still possible. But as you say only after a test I will be sure. I dont have the book you mention. I wish I could see this yataghan. You and Ariel are right about grapes in Islamic tradition. It was my mistake.

13th December 2005, 12:55 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	You are very kind, Yannis. My pleasure to be of service. I have only one request, and that is would you post pictures of your newely cleaned puppy for us?