Ottoman Bichaq help

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Battara

It is from Algeria and Ottoman.

Plus surprisingly when I did some researches about this bichaq I found yours on a very famous dealer website
https://www.antiqueswords.com/produc...q-ca-1830.html

This dealer also makes states no reason why this is being described as an "Algerian" weapon.

A good Ottoman Algerian Bichaq, ca. 1830

[estcrh]

The scabbard of this yatahan has a clear North African influence. The scabbard of the bichaq that battara posted looks like a typical Ottoman scabbard.

[Kubur]

Hi all

Thanks for your last example.
I'm sorry I can't find the dagger that I told you.
I will look again, may be some members could help.

For your 'Ottoman' concern.

It's funny I have discussed this previously in several posts.
Basically people know that Ottoman empire was big.
But when we talk about arms and armors, they just think about Turkey and Balkans.

We have probably the same books: some books focus on a particular area like Elgood with the Balkans, others focus on a collection like Pinchot.
But these books don't cover the whole Ottoman empire.
And sometimes you have a lot of mistakes like Tirri's book (who stays an excellent reference).

I'm very interested in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt).
I will post more stuff to enlarge a limited narrowed vision on Balkans and Turkey.

To finish, you can find Balkans arms in Algeria and the pistols with coral inlays are not all from Algeria...
Just guys open your mind to other area of the Ottoman empire (like Hijaz for example)...

Kubur

[BANDOOK]

KUBUR NICE ALGERIAN BLUNDERBAS,INCASE IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO SELL ,DO LET ME KNOW,KIND REGARDS RAJESH

[Sancar]

I don't know if this blade is from Balkans, Anatolia or Magrip, but when a Ottoman "bıçak" have a slight S curve and generally looks like a miniature yatağan(though most later examples are not this nice), it is usually called "saldırma" or attack(knife) in Turkish terminology.

As you can deduce from the name, it is a fighting knife. Hoodlams and criminals usually hide these knives under their jackets, tucked in under their arms. It was popularized in 19th century, after desolution of janissary corps and there is a theory that first versions of these knives were cut down yatağans(to carry it easier hidden). These blades reamined popular between criminals and gangsters in Turkey until early 60s. And it is still listed as an illegal weapon by Turkish criminal law.

[Battara]

Caber and others, thank you for your posting examples of what you are discussing.

We are aware of the openness of the Ottoman empire and that there was a lot of influence and style mixing, like the use of coral gemstones all over the empire, from Algeria to Bosnia. Yet there are local influences. I guess I have never noticed those from Algeria......

[estcrh]

Here are a few examples of repeated characteristics that are supposedly associated with North African hilts and a quote from Artzi.

This rare form of Yataghan, with the lobed pommel is usually identified as North African, probably Algeria. In addition, most of these Yataghans will come with rhino horn hilt grips.

[Kubur]

Some people think that this type of Yataghan with small curved ears are from Algeria. To be honest I don't know why...
It's like the Pala without guard, they are supposed to be Algerians.
I just post one of my flyssa daggers, you see the design of the scabbard and the blade are Algerian, but the general look of the dagger is like a bichaq.
Check this one also
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11699
Some people call these daggers flyssa others bichaq...
It is a complicated issue on this forum, should we use generic names or local names to define these objects????
For example, i think that an Omani sword is not a sayf but a kattara, despite all the discussions on this forum. Because when you say a kattara you know exactly where it comes from...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

For your 'Ottoman' concern.

It's funny I have discussed this previously in several posts.
Basically people know that Ottoman empire was big.
But when we talk about arms and armors, they just think about Turkey and Balkans...........I'm very interested in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt).

I will post more stuff to enlarge a limited narrowed vision on Balkans and Turkey.

To finish, you can find Balkans arms in Algeria and the pistols with coral inlays are not all from Algeria...
Just guys open your mind to other area of the Ottoman empire (like Hijaz for example)...

Kubur

Kuber, I am also very interested in weapons and armor from North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt). My point when discussing whether a particular item is from a certain part of the vast Ottoman empire is that if you are to positively state that an item is in fact "Algerian", "Balkan", "Albanian" "Egyptian" etc then there should be certain general characteristics that are repeatedly seen in other similar examples.

So far I do not see anything about the bichaq that Battara posted which shouts out as being "Algerian", but since I am not as familiar with Algerian weapons as some other forum members I would appreciate anyone who can show me what in particular would make the bichaq that Battara posted appear to be Algerian or even Balkan. To me it looks like a flat out Ottoman bichaq with not enough distinguishing characteristics to pin point a particular region of use or manufacture.