Bicol dagger for comment

[Sajen]

Thank you Ian for the further remarks. I am not sure to which entent this will be helpful since the terms "sinampalok" and "dinahong palay" maybe Bicolano terms. Of course I am aware that Tagalog and Bicolano relative languages but it could be that a translation will be different.

Both terms was given in the thread you mentioned in your last post from Bangkaya like followed:
Though are a number of variations of blade style in Bicol, there are basically 4 prevalent types:

Minasbad
Dinahong-palay
Ginunting
Sinampalok

This was all explained to me by a panday from Tabaco, Albay in Bicol. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take photos since I left my camera at my friends house (we were in search of pili nuts and just happened to run into the panday.) Most of the swords pictured on this thread are sinampalok or dinahong-palay (dahon palay in tagalog=rice leaf.) The minasbad is the long sword sometimes with an elaborate guard. The ginunting has a blade that is recurved but not hooked down like the modern Ilonggo or Marine Recon ginunting. The dinahong-palay and sinampalok are similar, however, the blade on the sinampalok tapers towards the hilt where the dinahong-palay maintains a constant width then abrubtly tapers usually with a hook like projection or goosenecks to the ricasso (much like a tinamban sansibar from Leyte.) As for the figural carving, he described this type seen on this thread as inaso or aso (dog) faced carving. The other figural style is called sawa which I believe is more of a crocodile or naga form.

And the term "sinampalok" was given to me also from Zel in the same thread by email like followed:
The type you have is I believed called a sinampalok....I don't have my notes with me right now. Sinampalok is term also used elsewhere in Luzon, but I've heard referred to this blade type in Bicol. I wouldn't get too hung up with the exact name of the blade type. There are hundreds of different blade types in the Philippines and the same blade can have different names even in the same region. What's important is that it's from Bicol...but it's not a minasbad.

Now, when you have a look to the shown sword in post #16, same thread, it has the same blade shape like from two of my swords from my other thread regarding Bicol blades/swords.
Now you will understand maybe better why I believe that my swords from Bicol as well.

That my dagger in question could be a Bicol dagger I based in fact only by the handle carving (inaso) which seems to be very typical for Bicol, look for example the ear carving. All seems by this dagger originally long together thus I believe it was worked there. Of course it seems to be a atypical blade form, maybe worked on request or with a recycled US blade, who knows?

Regards,
Detlef

PS: Just see by rereading that Bangkaya give the same translation for dahon palay like you!

[Ian]

Hi Detlef:

I am fairly certain that sinampalok and dinahong palay are Tagalog in origin, and I cannot find either of those terms in two online Bicolano-English dictionaries. The word ginunting is also Tagalog; it means "resembling scissors" or "resembling shears" with the grammatical construction being similar to the other two terms (gunting meaning "scissors" or "shears"). The only term for which I am unable to find a Tagalog translation is minasbad and it could be an old Bicolano word although it does not appear in the online Bicolano dictionaries. We need help from a native Bicolano to sort that out.

As far as drawing conclusions based on the hilt style (as defined for the minasbad) that we think is associated with Camarines sur and saying this is limited to the Bicol Region, that is a big extrapolation based on the available data. I think you would agree that the distribution of this hilt style is unknown. Based on the available data, the aso hilt could be limited to just the Camarines sur or it could extend more widely in the Bicol Region and even beyond to, say, the eastern Visayas (Samar, Leyte, Cebu). Indeed, the sword shown in post #16 of the thread you reference could easily be classified as a Visayan pinuti or sansibar with its long narrow pointed blade, chisel edge, and blind tang construction.

Based on the evidence gathered to date, it seems to me that the most we can say about edged weapons/tools having an aso hilt or exhibiting the minasbad style of sword is that these are consistent with examples coming from Camarines sur, and might be found more widely in other areas of the Bicol Region or in nearby areas of the Visayas. There may even be overlap of these weapons/tools to the north of Bicol in traditional Tagalog areas.

The usual way to research these questions is to read historical documents, scholarly accounts, the writings of travelers in previous centuries, and search out contemporary local sources. For various reasons we are having problems finding those resources. I think the way forward is, to coin an American term, to have boots on the ground. And not just anybody doing the investigation. It needs experienced investigators working with local informants. As my anthropology colleagues frequently tell me, "half of what informants report is wrong and the other half is misleading"--take what you are told with a grain of salt and verify everything using as many sources as possible.

Such investigation takes time and money. Fortunately, I will soon have time to do some of this work because I am retiring today! The money, however, may be a limiting factor (as well as my wife). The Bicol region is not high on my list of places to visit, but I hope to get there in the next 3-5 years.

Cheers,

Ian.