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Old 16th December 2014, 01:17 PM   #1
Matchlock
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In the Landeszeughaus Graz is an exact equivalent to the cartrigde box in the author's collection discussed in thread #10.
It shows the very same decoration with tiny star-shaped brass nails encircling the bone inlays. On almost other patrons from the same series delivered to the Graz arsenal, there are no nails.

It is the author's thesis is that the ones with the additional star-shaped nails were for officers.

Unlike the dating Robert Brooker suggested - ca. 1580-90 - the Graz arsenal records prove that this group of cartridge boxes definitely was part of the Nuremberg deliveries in 1577-78, so an exact date of two years is provided.

Scans are from Robert Brooker: Eine Radschloss-Sammung/A Wheellock Collection, Graz, 2007.

Best,
Michael


Atts.:
- the patron in the author's collection

- the equivalent in the Landeszeughaus Graz


Both came from the same series delivered to the Graz armory from Nuremberg in 1577-78, together with
wheellock puffers and other pieces of accouterment.

For some precious Saxon powder flasks, please see:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19395



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Last edited by Matchlock; 16th December 2014 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 16th December 2014, 05:06 PM   #2
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An early sample of a patron/cartridge box, ca. 1560-65, is in the reserve colletion of the Metroplitan Museum of Art, N.Y.,
see top two attachments.

Its edged construction is similar to the finely etched sample shown in post #42.

The following b/w
att. is a scan of an old photograph showing various types of patrons and a round flask, from the 1560's to the 1580's, from the collections of the Historisches Museum Dresden, the Rüstkammer.

Re-attached find a third sample from that Nuremberg made group of patrons, all of them ca. 1560, is in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris; with its etched and fire-gilt decoration it is the finest known. It is also important for historic weaponry because it is dated 1559; inv.no. M 21138 - cf. post #14.

The bottom att.
presents a but finely etched and edged patron of ca. 1550 in the Bargello, Firenze, from post #42, similar to the one in att.#1.


Best,
Michael
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Last edited by Matchlock; 16th December 2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 16th December 2014, 06:28 PM   #3
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The one on top was sold Bonhams, 29.7.2009.

The two others Saxon, in the Dresden Rüstkammer.
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Last edited by Matchlock; 16th December 2014 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 16th December 2014, 07:02 PM   #4
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A very unusual combined cartridge box/patron and powder flask, and with an addintional small compartment of unknown purpose, possibly for a worm and scourer for cleaning and clearing the barrel. The 9 tubes for paper cartridges are of tinned iron.
Probably ca. 1560-80, in the Landeszeughaus Graz, inv.no. 546/7.

The two bottom atts. depict a paper cartridge in the Graz arsenal, recovered from the barrel of alate 17th century flintlock musket!

All color scans from Robert Brooker: Eine Radschoß-Sammlung - A Wheellock Collection. Graz, 2008;
the b/w scans from Peter Krenn: Die Handfeuerwaffen des österreichischen Soldaten. Graz, 1986;
the three color photos copyrighted by the author, 1986.

Enjoy.

Best,
Michael
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Last edited by Matchlock; 16th December 2014 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 6th September 2015, 07:11 PM   #5
Piotr M. Zalewski
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Default An important Question

I wonder when, where and how was the paper cartridge inwented. My second question is about Saxon/Landsknecht cartrige box how it heppened that it was not established in others countries, or may be it was?
Can someone explain ?
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Old 21st November 2018, 09:13 AM   #6
Marcus den toom
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Default Leather bound cartridge and powderflask

My newest addition, a leather combined cartridge holder and powderflask.
Similar to the one posted by Michael (post 60). It is in fine condition with very little loss on the leather or overall structure.
The powderflask was most likely used for the fine meal powder which was inserted into the powderpan.
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Old 26th November 2018, 09:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr M. Zalewski
I wonder when, where and how was the paper cartridge inwented. My second question is about Saxon/Landsknecht cartrige box how it heppened that it was not established in others countries, or may be it was?
Can someone explain ?
Spanish Artillery researcher Jorge Vigon attributes gun paper cartridges directly to Henri II of France. But IIRC, catholics complained of protestants Landsknechts using latin bibles for cartridges at the sack of Rome 1527.
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Old 7th November 2021, 02:57 PM   #8
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Does anyone know the purpose of the rim at the base of the patrons? Talking to C17th cavalry reenactors, including one who worked at the Royal Armouries, they hadn't determined if it was functional or just stylistic.
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