Armour?

[Ahriman]

Oi!
I was away for a while, buried under work...
I couldn't take a picture of the remade vambrace I mentioned... my camera was dead then, and my sister bought one for herself only a few days ago... but the buyer will most likely send me the pictures, if he doesn't forget it. It turned out very nice, and I blackened the whole thing - looks good.

Yesterday, I finished another eastern vambrace, I'd like to hear your opinions. The plate is 1.5mm CR steel, the rings are 8mm diameter and are 1.5mm thick. Every plate except the border ones are fluted, flutes being 5mm high, except on the longest plate, where they are 10mm, and on the central metacarpal plate, where there's only a touch of fluting, about 1mm. There's a strap under the knuckles, and straps and buckles at wrist and at 2 point of the vambrace. The mail on the wrist is laced with a leather bit. Soon, I'll get pictures of the buyer wearing it.
Lower part of the vambrace is extremely wide, as the buyer uses golves almost equivalent to hockey gloves, and would stand up by themselfes against blunt sabers.
The pictures are rather low quality, as this camera costed 15$... :-///
And I took the photos in dark... but they are, I think, usable.
Closeup on the flutes, before blacking.

One laid out, one compacted... :-)

And a full picture.


BTW, did they ever make helmets like the spangenhelm, but joined with mail? I think I've seen something like this somewhere, but I'm not sure. And if it did exist, would it be OK for that vambrace and a krug?

[Aqtai]

Hi Ahriman, welcome back!

Nice work on that vambrace.

Helmets of the type you described were used in India from the 16th-19th century (and probably a lot earlier).

Here's one from the Royal Armouries in Leeds:


Another one from the Royal armouries:


This one is from "Hindu Arms and Ritual" by Robert Elgood:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...6th-17thC3.jpg

You seem to be going for a very Indian look at the moment.

Other helmets of the same type from the Royal Armouries:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ate_17th_c.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ard_17th_c.jpg

Oh yes, I recently found this picture of a 15th century Mamluk Krug, look familiar?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...amlukKrug1.jpg

[Ahriman]

Wow, thanks, very useful pictures... Again, something I thought I invented...

Is it possible that either the krug got there, or these helmets got to the turks? The buyer with the new vambraces would like them combined, and I'm curious that how correct would this be.

Yes, I simply love indian stuff, btw... Maybe with small alterations here and there...

[Aqtai]

I think there are few doubts about the Krug. Not only did the Ottomans make extensive use of krugs themselves, but after the Ottomans conquered the Mamluk Sultanate in 1517, they carted huge amounts of Mamluk armour and weapons back to Istanbul. It was subsequently reused by Ottoman troops. With regards to using Indian-style mail and plate helmets we are on much shakier ground. There is no doubt that Mughul armour was influenced by Ottoman and Persian armour, but the influence seems to have flown in only one direction. I haven't seen any Ottoman helmets with a similar method of construction.

By the way, I've found pics of another Indian helmet of a similar type:
http://www.ashokaarts.com/armour/ar-5.html

[Ahriman]

Ehm, I was thinking about such a design less than a week ago... Is there nothing new I could invent?

Would it be correct to put arabic text onto the disc of the krug instead of radial flutes? My costumer would like the word "Allah" onto it, but I can't recall any examples... problem is that that I'm quite against using fantasy style stuff for serious reenacting, so I ask for +50% if the buyer wants something that's out of style, or if it can't be explained by combining existing and contacting styles.

[Aqtai]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Ehm, I was thinking about such a design less than a week ago... Is there nothing new I could invent?

Would it be correct to put arabic text onto the disc of the krug instead of radial flutes? My costumer would like the word "Allah" onto it, but I can't recall any examples... problem is that that I'm quite against using fantasy style stuff for serious reenacting, so I ask for +50% if the buyer wants something that's out of style, or if it can't be explained by combining existing and contacting styles.

I see no reason why inscriptions cannot be put on the Disc, I have seen many examples, like this 16th century Mamluk or Ottoman krug in The Khalili Collection book:



Why just stop at "Allah". Many real Islamic armours and weapons had a variety of inscriptions, including verses from the Qur'an, the names and titles of the Sultan that the warrior wearing the armour was serving, and in the case of armour made for high ranking amirs, the names and titles of the owner.

[Ahriman]

Ok, thanks, nice picture again...

I'll stop at Allah because of the price... I got $50 for the vambraces, and I'll get $225 for the krug which will be blacked as well...
Another reason is that I've started learning arabic only very recently... I could copy, of course, but I want to understand exactly what I write.
Oh, and I'll get $50 for the indian-like helmet as well... :-/