Accidental collector - old weapons ID assistance (Yao?)

spiral · 7th November 2014, 09:36 AM

Interesting stuff chaps!

Many of the NW & NWF type kukri bolster with the hidden rivet {of the same style as these knives.} were probably made by Sikhs....

Another factor as well as the possibility of Arab traders would be the Scottish based " African Lakes Company Limited" in 1878, to support missionaries & trade in ivory & store goods along the shores of Lake Nyasa and in the Lower Shire Valley in the late 1870s and early 1880s. They were heavily based on river transport.

They apparently wouldn't give the natives guns in trade {unlike the Arab slave & ivory buyers.} But I wonder if they had something, to do with these? Whether made locally, {which I doubt, but I could be wrong.} imported on made by imported labour... After all anywhere the British were the Indian traders & crafts people soon followed.

spiral

Jampot10 · 7th November 2014, 10:57 AM

Yes Spiral - I have really enjoyed how this discussion has developed.

Arab influence in East Africa was huge from the mid 18th century onwards. Driven initially around the slave trade by the middle east Sultanates. If you look at Zanzibar for instance this was effectively controlled by the Sultan of Oman from around 1700 - 1890 when it became a British protectorate. Dar-Es- Salaam was originally an Arab built city in 1865. If they're building cities, I really can't see why these weapons couldn't have been produced by Arabs in Africa.

I do understand though why those with more knowledge than me point out that these are not normal blades associated with African tribal production.

Again open to interpretation but have a look at the pictures below, - the screen capture is Arabic script and the meaning of the word is "Attack" . Is it just me or is there similarity to the stamps on one of the blades ? Even if my translation is wrong it would seem to be Arabic script - maybe someone on the forum knows more ?

As a last thing I showed my knives to an established collector who lives in my village. The majority of this discussion has been about the Ivory one so far but his opinion was that the larger knife might actually be horn handled not wooden. This may well impact again on location of manufacture. Apparently there is a weapons event soon and my friend is going to take them up to show to his colleagues so this might generate more to talk about.
J

Tim Simmons · 7th November 2014, 12:17 PM

Most interesting. Also a great amount of WW! Indian troops in East Africa. The WW1 Africa theater is sadly not well documented by historians.

7th November 2014, 10:57 AM	#2
Jampot10 Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 12	Yes Spiral - I have really enjoyed how this discussion has developed. Arab influence in East Africa was huge from the mid 18th century onwards. Driven initially around the slave trade by the middle east Sultanates. If you look at Zanzibar for instance this was effectively controlled by the Sultan of Oman from around 1700 - 1890 when it became a British protectorate. Dar-Es- Salaam was originally an Arab built city in 1865. If they're building cities, I really can't see why these weapons couldn't have been produced by Arabs in Africa. I do understand though why those with more knowledge than me point out that these are not normal blades associated with African tribal production. Again open to interpretation but have a look at the pictures below, - the screen capture is Arabic script and the meaning of the word is "Attack" . Is it just me or is there similarity to the stamps on one of the blades ? Even if my translation is wrong it would seem to be Arabic script - maybe someone on the forum knows more ? As a last thing I showed my knives to an established collector who lives in my village. The majority of this discussion has been about the Ivory one so far but his opinion was that the larger knife might actually be horn handled not wooden. This may well impact again on location of manufacture. Apparently there is a weapons event soon and my friend is going to take them up to show to his colleagues so this might generate more to talk about. J Attached Images Last edited by Jampot10; 7th November 2014 at 12:25 PM.

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7th November 2014, 09:36 AM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Interesting stuff chaps! Many of the NW & NWF type kukri bolster with the hidden rivet {of the same style as these knives.} were probably made by Sikhs.... Another factor as well as the possibility of Arab traders would be the Scottish based " African Lakes Company Limited" in 1878, to support missionaries & trade in ivory & store goods along the shores of Lake Nyasa and in the Lower Shire Valley in the late 1870s and early 1880s. They were heavily based on river transport. They apparently wouldn't give the natives guns in trade {unlike the Arab slave & ivory buyers.} But I wonder if they had something, to do with these? Whether made locally, {which I doubt, but I could be wrong.} imported on made by imported labour... After all anywhere the British were the Indian traders & crafts people soon followed. spiral

7th November 2014, 12:17 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Most interesting. Also a great amount of WW! Indian troops in East Africa. The WW1 Africa theater is sadly not well documented by historians.